Hong Kong
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Senior superintendent Steve Li, from the city’s new national security police unit, announced the arrest of two men and one woman, Wong Yat-chin, Wong Chi-sum Chu Wai-ying from the pro-democracy group, Student Politicism.
The group used slogans declared illegal under the new national security law and told people to “prepare for the next revolution,” Li said.
Police seized large quantities of sweets, biscuits, and books. Earlier this month the city’s top security official Chris Tang accused jailed activists of collecting items like chocolates to “build power” and “solicit followers”.
Li suggested democracy activists were using the items to win followers in prison.
The M&Ms was no doubt supplied by the CIA, the Candy Infiltrating Agency
Here we go again More deluded rubbish from our rabid nationalist, TrueScotsman
China is not a dictatorship, it’s one of the most democratic countries on the planet with 96 per cent approval of its government. But you, think you’ve the right to tell 1.4 billion people how to live. They all think you kind annoying gnats, as do I.
He admits that China is a capitalist country – what else could it be if the mode of production is based on generalised wage labour, the acid test for the existence of capitalism? But if the MOP is capitalist, then the nature of the state must be capitalist too. This is basic historical materialism.
Despite its ridiculous pretensions to being “communist” or “Marxist”, the CPC is a fully capitalist entity. It administers the wage system and is, therefore, a capitalist entity. But there is only one way you can administer capitalism – in the interest of capital and, hence, against the interest of wage labour. That is to say against the interests of the vast majority.
This gives the lie to TS’s preposterous claim that “China is not a dictatorship, it’s one of the most democratic countries on the planet with 96 per cent approval of its government“. It does not seem to have occured to him that China is a one-party authoritarian dictatorship so the figure if 96% is pretty much meaningless.
Besides, as with every other country in the world, China is a capitalist state, all important decisions being made on an essentially top-down basis. Chinese workers have little or no say in the running of the country. The Chinese capitalist state is currently trying to further consolidate this authoritarian chain of command and the COVID pandemic has given it a perfect excuse to do just that
TS is living in a bubble divorced from reality if he seriously imagines there is anything democratic about the Chinese state capitalist dictatorship. At the very least, if it was “democratic” you would expect it to abandon the model of a one-party state and permit political opposition to function, openly and legally. He fits the description of a “useful idiot” to the regime, gullibly trotting out the oh-so-predictable line that any opposition to this billionaire-friendly capitalist regime must be instigated by the CIA or some other such nefarious entity. This is the typical response of capitalist regimes under pressure from within: blame the foreigner.
If TS knew anything about China, he would understand that the Chinese authorities have been cracking down on and repressing Marxists. Our own comrades in China face repression and have to be very wary about putting across Marxist ideas in this repressive state that does not tolerate any genuine freedom of the press. I guess TS, with his fertile imagination, considers these Marxists to be “CIA funded”.
Here is another link on the subject
https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/no-place-for-real-marxists-in-communist-china/
Is your brain broken MS? The Confederation is a front for the CIA. No wonder you people are so irrelevant.
“supporters of the dictatorship of China”
China is not a dictatorship, it’s one of the most democratic countries on the planet with 96 per cent approval of its government. But you, think you’ve the right to tell 1.4 billion people how to live. They all think you kind annoying gnats, as do I.
“the same thing was done by the USA in Latin
America,”Yes, I’ve no doubt the CIA was infiltrating unions there too. But you’re so daft, you probably cheered it on!
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No, but you have the brain of a mosquito, and you are the real fool and you publish all kinds of conspiracy theories because it is easy to repeat something created by somebody than to use your own brain.You are bringing things that took place during the period of the cold war, and the KGB also penetrated agents in different parts of the world, and created sub-agency in other countries, the G2 which is the spying agency of Cuba was created by the KGB and it is used to repress the workers, and those that do not support the government are called an agent of the USA, CIA spy, or traitors.
The Stalinist parties also infiltrated agents or cadres inside the worker’s unions in order to impose their political line, and there were more Stalinist agents inside the worker’s unions than CIA agents, and there were constant struggles between the agents from the Stalinist parties and the Trotskyist parties
You are giving opinions of a region that you do not know, you do not even know the real history of the place where you grew up, it is something normal, it is the country that has created most of the conspiracy theories that are flying in the air, the right-winger created them and the left propagate them.
The workers union in Latin America especially the ones from the Caribbean were influenced by the Cartists, and the USA did not infiltrate them, the leaders were killed, or deported by the puppet governments supported by the USA goverment, and there are several books written about that and you probably have not read them, as well, you were not part of the working-class movement, therefore you do not know what you are talking about
Latin America is considered as the backdoor of the Chinese capitalists, and they have large investments in Chile and the Chinese fishing industry is destroying the life of the local fishermen and they are taking the natural resources of the Orinoco basin, those are capitalists agents too, and also China is spreading their military and security agents in the region
Now, how do you know that the workers union in Hong Kong are infiltrated by the CIA? Do you have evidence to prove that? What about the workers union who supported the government of China are they infiltrated by Chinese agents? They also have their own spying agency similar to the KGB, Gestapo, and the CIA. In this forum, you can also be an agent of the Chinese government
If the one-party rule is a democracy, the Nazis one-party rule is democracy too, and the one-party rule is one of the components of fascism/nazism along with extreme nationalism, one-party rule is power from the top to the bottom is not the opposite way, and one man established without the decision of the peoples and staying in power for a long period of time is also considered a dictator according to the definition of the leftwingers in regard to the government of the right-wingers. Under one-party rules workers, all decisions are made from the top and workers are not part of the decision process. Probably a small country known as Costa Rica in Central America is more democratic than China and people have always elected right-wingers.
The article that you published did not mention anything about the International Working Union and they were not influenced by any government agency, as well during the government of FDR workers unions influenced thru a coalition of Communists, Socialists, and Anarchists on the formation of the New Deal and it was a strong coalition, the article does not say that many workers union have coop. It looks that you have not studied the history of the world workers’ unions. You contradict Lenin who said that the workers union were schools of communism
PS: I wrote One supporter of the dictatorship of China and you cut the whole expression, that person is you, you are a supporter of the Chinese dictatorship like anybody can support any other dictatorship. We do not support any type of government.
Anyone who thinks that capitalism in China is any different from capitalism anywhere else should search “Evergrande” and see what comes up.
This is a property development company — with a name that typifies what all capitalist enterprises must aim at — that has overproduced in relation to its market and risks bankruptcy.
Clearly TS cannot be influenced by rational debate and anything we say will not change his mind. We have to ask why he has to believe what he does. I think there are three elements symptomatic of the Leftist mindset and ideology: a) the need to identify with authoritarian structures and the power and leadership they personify, or seem to personify. b)paradoxically, a hatred of US power. c) the inability to imagine an alternative to capitalism (because it does not exist yet) alongside a desperate need to believe those who proclaim that socialism does exist somewhere. As comrades know I’ve never believed that the Left are necessarily more likely to achieve socialist consciousness than the rest of the population and TS is a great example of why.
“you are the real fool and you publish all kinds of conspiracy theories”
I haven’t written about any conspiracy theories. Conspiracy facts certainly, theories…not a one.
“You are bringing things that took place during the period of the cold war”
Your naivete is so profound it’s almost touching. Are you honestly that smooth brained that you think the CIA ceased all operations upon the fall of the USSR?
“The Stalinist parties also infiltrated agents”
The topic is Hong Kong. Do pay attention.
“Latin America is considered as the backdoor of the Chinese capitalists”
By whom?
“and they have large investments in Chile”
How dare Chile be assisted to develop. The wretches should know their proper place and be grateful for their opportunity to dine upon table scraps.
“and the Chinese fishing industry is destroying the life of the local fishermen”
Citation needed.
“and they are taking the natural resources of the Orinoco basin”
What do you mean “taking”. Are you saying no payment is involved? Provide citations for your claims.
“those are capitalists agents too, and also China is spreading their military and security agents in the region”
Bullshit. Citation needed.
“Now, how do you know that the workers union in Hong Kong are infiltrated by the CIA?”
Because it’s on the NED website you knucklehead. You know, the one I linked to? You’re so dumb I don’t know how you remember to breathe.
“What about the workers union who supported the government of China are they infiltrated by Chinese agents?”
And how is that at all relevant to the topic at hand?
“If the one-party rule is a democracy, the Nazis one-party rule is democracy too”
Hitler Card logical fallacy. Do better.
https://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html
“along with extreme nationalism”
Are you saying that the Chinese state sanctions and encourages extreme nationalism? Provide evidence for your deluded claim.
“one-party rule is power from the top to the bottom is not the opposite way”
There are multiple political parties in China and they play an important role in the governing of the country. But you, a deluded, ignorant racist knows nothing of such things. Below is an excellent link on the issue, but I don’t think you’ve the mental capacity to read it. Shame, you’d actually learn something.
https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/what-do-chinas-democratic-parties-actually-do/
“Under one-party rules workers, all decisions are made from the top and workers are not part of the decision process.”
Just one more thing you’re wrong about. Please stop pretending to have any knowledge pertaining to this subject. You’re just embarrassing yourself.
https://thesaker.is/sitrep-how-democratic-is-china/
“Probably a small country known as Costa Rica in Central America is more democratic than China and people have always elected right-wingers.”
And unicorns probably fart rainbows. I mean, we’re just making things up here, right?
“The article that you published did not mention anything about the International Working Union”
Are you retarded or did your mother just drop you on your head one too many times as an infant? We’re talking about Hong Kong.
“We do not support any type of government.”
Which is why your party is and will forever remain an abject failure. You will never come close to gaining power because you are a gaggle of reactionary know nothings. Thankfully there are serious socialists aplenty whose views are nowhere near as toxic and ignorant as your own.
Wez, I agree with you that honest debate is not possible with someone who will never accept your sources but insists that his own are unimpeachable.
TS is certainly a case study of a person with entrenched views and it would be interesting on how they arose. He has been very reluctant to cite his own party memberships if he has had any, that is. He is unable to provide examples of any political party platform that he can endorse other than the CCP. His only attempt citing the Japanese Communist Party simply revealed his naivity and ignorance which he quickly had to retract. We know nothing of his political evolution. We know nothing of his political activities other than what we witness on this forum.
Whether he espousing right or left-wing beliefs seem irrelevant. He could so easily be pro-Trump or pro-Modi or a follower of a host of other populists intent upon substituting charisma for reason.
He will no doubt dismiss this wiki link as planted to discredit ‘Grandpa’ Xi but it reveals the similarity between Stalin and Mao and Xi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping%27s_cult_of_personalityTS forgets one of Marx’s insightful observations, “one cannot judge people by what he thinks about himself,”
Just as one does not judge an individual by what he thinks about himself, so one cannot judge such a period of transformation by its professed intentions, but, on the contrary, actual changes must be explained from the contradictions of material life, from the conflict existing between the social forces of production and the relations of production.
“Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.”
“Men generally believe what they want to.”Chinese capitalism is capitalism, and it is subject to the same crisis of overproduction of capitalism, and it is governed by the same law of crisis of the logic of capitalism, it is unstable like any other capitalist society, Marx theory of crisis applies to the Chinese society
Evergrande is not the only conglomerate that is in crisis and on the brink of bankruptcy, there are several corporations and government entities that are on the brink of bankruptcy, and probably the government would be forced to bail them out like in 2008 the USA government had to bail out several corporations. Every capitalist state is financed with surplus-value
Most left-wingers who support Chinese capitalism are just anti Yankees, but they are not anti-capitalist, they think that one piece of capitalism is the problem of the whole world, similar to the Cuban leadership who rejected USA capitalism to become obedient puppets of Soviet capitalism and became a member of the COMECON, and they went to Africa to defend the interest of the Soviet capitalism with the pretext that they were fighting colonialism
Alan and Wez
He is going to spend all the time insulting and using diatribes, bulling, and he does not have any respect for anybody, he responds according to the mentality of his own society, he did not come to this forum to learn and to have political discussions, this forum is his catharsis. The moderator of this forum should apply the rules of the forum. He just stop supporting USA capitalism to support Chinese capitalism, it is the same logic of the members of the CPUSA. To deal with him is a waste of time, it is like dealing with a Trumpist or a member of the QAnon group, or an Evangelical, He has no Marxist or socialist foundation, even more, he has not Leninist foundation. He takes other people’s messages and takes them out of context and split them into pieces and the message is completely distorted. He is a very dishonest debater
More drivel from our rabid nationalist TruesScotsman
There are multiple political parties in China and they play an important role in the governing of the country. But you, a deluded, ignorant racist knows nothing of such things. Below is an excellent link on the issue, but I don’t think you’ve the mental capacity to read it. Shame, you’d actually learn something.
China IS in effect a one-party authoritarian state. True, there are on paper 8 other small political parties but these are effectively under the rigorous control of the CP that selects their leadership and allows them to exist only on condition that they accept the complete hegemony of the pseudo communist party. They are fronts for the purpose of window dressing the regime as something less dictatorial than it is actually is. Not infrequently there is dual membership of both the minor party and the CP. No genuine opposition to the regime is legally permitted and is systemically weeded out of the minor parties by the regime itself, thereby ensuring the compliance of these parties to the regime
This article explains the historical background to the existence of these minor parties
Contrary to what you claim these minor parties play no important role in the government of the country. They are more consultative bodies if anything. I note you have nothing to say about the active suppression of Marxists by the Chinese authorities
Stop with your craven apologizing for this thoroughly obnoxious anti-democratic and anti-working class regime that is the Chinese state capitalist regime. And, no, opposition to this regime is not in the least “racist” – where did you get this stupid idea from? Unlike you, I am not selective in the capitalist regimes I oppose – whether they be China, the US, the UK or North Korea
The government of Cuba has the same political parties system, in front of the eyes of its followers and supporters it looks like a democratic electoral process, but they are minor political parties who do not produce any effect on the political system, the main player is the so-called Communist Party which is not a communist party, it is just another nationalist party like all the others nationalists and social democratic party that exist in Latin America. It is just another single-party rule,
If a party like ours has the opportunity to get a companion party in China, its members are going to have a hard time and might be persecuted and executed, like having a companion party of the WSM in the Soviet Union, outside of the Soviet Union the Stalinists and Leninist gave us a hard time. Our companion party in India can operate more freely than one companion party in China
ALB
Keymaster
Anyone who thinks that capitalism in China is any different from capitalism anywhere else should search “Evergrande” and see what comes up.This is a property development company — with a name that typifies what all capitalist enterprises must aim at — that has overproduced in relation to its market and risks bankruptcy.
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According to several financial experts, it is going to produce a big financial crisis in the world market and in China. It is similar to the real estate crisis of the USA in 2008. Whoever places his/her hope on capitalism does not know that is supporting a very unstable economic system, even more, economist like Richard Wolff has said that several times
And opposition to the USA capitalism, European, capitalism, African capitalism, Middle Eastern capitalism, and Latin American capitalism is also racism? It does sound like the US capitalist that opposition to USA capitalism is anti-American,( All peoples living in the Americas are Americans including the people from the virgin island, and the minor Antilles who speak English, French, and Papiamento ) and the Cuban capitalists, any opposition to the regime is being anti-Cuban and the citizens are called traitors, CIA agents, and pro-Yankees. Any opposition to the regime of Israel is antisemitism too, and whoever does not support Hamas, Hezbollah or Palestinian nationalism is Zionist. We are living in an unprincipled world, or what in Clinical Psychology is known as Bizarre Personality. Engels defined ideology as False conscience, and Marx called it a distortion of the reality
PS: Marx asserts that social mechanisms emerge in a class society that systematically creates distortions, errors, and blind spots in the consciousness of the underclass. If these consciousness-shaping mechanisms did not exist, then the underclass, always a majority, would quickly overthrow the system of their domination.
Before the crisis of 2008 there was an overproduction of family homes, apartments buildings, professional building and offices spaces, shopping mall and many were empty
Who ever thinks that Chinese capitalism is different to other capitalist countries should come back and read Marx theory of capitalist crisis Nobody is safe
“He is going to spend all the time insulting and using diatribes, bulling”
Pot, meet kettle. What a snow flake. You hurl mud at me incessantly, I sling a little back and you cry to mummy. Run away child, the adults are talking.
“and he does not have any respect for anybody”
Not anybody on this thread. You have to earn respect. None of you are worthy.
“he did not come to this forum to learn and to have political discussions”
Since you have me on your fainting couch, can you help me with my daddy issues?
“He just stop supporting USA capitalism to support Chinese capitalism”
China is a mixed economy. Marx believed the productive forces of capitalism need to be unleashed before the transition to socialism and communism. True or false?
“it is like dealing with a Trumpist or a member of the QAnon group, or an Evangelical”
How so? What views of theirs have you heard me share?
“He takes other people’s messages and takes them out of context and split them into pieces and the message is completely distorted.”
Rubbish, I allow you to hang yourself with your own rope.
“He is a very dishonest debater”
Writes the person who routinely makes up things about me. You’ve some nerve.
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