Hong Kong
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Hiding the truth
The Alliance in Support of Patriotic Democratic Movements in China, known as the HK Alliance, said they had received a seven-day notice by the Hong Kong police commissioner to take down all their social media posts after receiving orders to erase posts from their website, as well as Facebook, Twitter and Youtube referring to the Tiananmen Sq slaughter.
The police accused the group members of being “foreign agents.”
https://www.dw.com/en/hong-kong-orders-tiananmen-vigil-group-to-delete-websites/a-59200397
“referring to the Tiananmen Sq slaughter”
There was no “slaughter” on Tienanmen Square. In your own words, what do you think happened on the Square June 4th and 5th?
“Our stooge of the Chinese “communist” party condemns himself with his own words. Democracy, according to him, is only available to those who agree with him!”
You would extend political rights to those in your country who are Quislings of a foreign power? Political rights are a privilege, they do not extend to saboteurs, turncoats and traitors. There was a time such people would have their heads roughly shaven if they were lucky, a bullet to the nape of the neck if less so.
“He might not be the only true Scotsman, but he’s definitely the only person that still believes that China is a Socialist society.”
It’s a mixed economy run by a communist party working towards communism. It will be fully communist by 2121.
“So what is the ‘actual meat’ of your argument? That the ruling class of China is superior in some way to that of the US or European nations?”
Reading comprehension not your strong suit? You interjected into the discussion about the motivations of the main western European powers previous to the outbreak of WW2.
Yet another cult of the personality
https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-add-xi-jinping-thought-002423814.html
China will incorporate “Xi Jinping Thought” into its national curriculum to help “establish Marxist belief” in the country’s youth, the education ministry said
The Ministry of Education said Chinese President Xi Jinping’s “thought on socialism with Chinese characteristics in the new era” would be taught from primary school level all the way to university.
New teaching materials must “cultivate patriotic feelings”, the guidelines said.
“Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism With Chinese Characteristics for a New Era” was formally enshrined in the country’s constitution in 2018.
Xi’s personal power has also been strengthened by the abolition of presidential term limits.
Another shit worst than Mao Tse Tung thought which did not have any Marxist basis. A Stalinist like Enver Hoxha called him the Modern Confucius
https://www.marxists.org/archive/dunayevskaya/works/articles/raya.htm
Mao Tse Tung thought is so distorted that he even perverted Lenin who also distorted Marx and he subscribed himself to the bourgeoise materialist currenthttps://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1938/lenin/
New teaching materials must “cultivate patriotic feelings”, the guidelines said.
Pure bourgeoise principles, the same principles of the right-wingers who call for Nationalists of the world to unite. Eugene Debs will contradict that when he said that he did not have any country to fight for and that his country was the earth and he was a citizen of the world. Socialism is not based on nationalism and patriotism
“China will incorporate “Xi Jinping Thought” into its national curriculum to help “establish Marxist belief” in the country’s youth, the education ministry said”
And you, a supposed Marxist, has a problem with that?
“The Ministry of Education said Chinese President Xi Jinping’s “thought on socialism with Chinese characteristics in the new era” would be taught from primary school level all the way to university.”
So you, a supposed Marxist, are opposed to teaching Marxism to children?
“New teaching materials must “cultivate patriotic feelings”, the guidelines said.”
Yes patriotism as opposed nationalism. (Nationalism is the chauvinist one in case you didn’t know.)
““Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism With Chinese Characteristics for a New Era” was formally enshrined in the country’s constitution in 2018.”
Do you even know what Xi Jinping thought is? And no, I won’t accept Wikipedia’s version of it, sorry.
“Xi’s personal power has also been strengthened by the abolition of presidential term limits.”
Numerous countries have no term limits for the highest office, yours included. Xi serves at the pleasure of the Party. If it chooses to replace him with someone more fit for purpose then it may do so.
Yes patriotism as opposed nationalism. (Nationalism is the chauvinist one in case you didn’t know.)
They can confuse the fools, we do not need any lectures from you when you are the students, the SPGB/WSM has written thousands of articles about nationalism and patriotism, both are the same, that differentiation has been made by the right-wingers and the patriots in order to confuse the fools
Patriotism comes from Patria ( Patrimonium ) which means fatherland, and nationalism comes from the concept of nation,( nation-state ) both are the same and both indicate that the working class has a common interest with their own rulers and they own a fatherland when they do not own anything, they just own their labor force which they must sell like a commodity in order to survive, the difference between the classical slave and the modern slave is that they can choose their own master.
In every country, there are two opposite and antagonistic interests which are the interests of the capitalist class and the interest of the working class, workers do not have to defend any nation or any fatherland, and workers do not have to be patriots, their common interest is with the workers of the world, workers do not have to defend or support any rulers, any president, any government ( right or left ) even more socialism/communism ( which is the same, it is a division created by Lenin ) is going to be a society without nations and without fatherland
https://en.internationalism.org/content/17053/neither-fatherland-or-death-nor-fatherland-and-life-proletarians-have-no-fatherland“I have tolerated your ignorance long enough”
Clearly you have not. You went less than a full day before reengaging. You suffer a similar pathology to me, an irresistible urge to have the last word.
“Julian Assange is sitting in jail right now for having released diplomatic secret messages such as the one I quoted to you”
No, he is imprisoned because he embarrassed the US with the release of the “collateral murder” video. He could have “embarrassed” China all he liked til the cows came home and their would have been no consequences. China is not in the business of kidnapping foreign journalists from third countries. That would be the UK and US’ prerogative.
“that clearly supports my assertion that the regiments who suppressed the Tiananmen Sq protests were not local since these were disaffected”
That was not the claim you had originally made. Your claim was that a commander was removed.
“so much so that their commander disobeyed his orders and was court-martialled”
The cable you use to support your case makes no mention of any commander disobeying orders or being court-martialed. So again, I ask, prove your assertion.
“You insult the courage and bravery of the Chinese 38th Army who refused to turn their guns on innocent civilians.”
The “innocent civilians” where, exactly? And I mean WHERE exactly? Would they be the “innocents” who beat soldiers to death before immolating their corpses and stringing them up on bridges and buses? Don’t believe me? You can see the pictures for yourself here…
“The blood of Chinese democrats is on your hands as you obediently parrot Chinese government propaganda lies.”
No, the blood spilled was of regime change rioters, police, soldiers and some unlucky enough to be caught in the crossfire.
“Shame on you”
No, shame on you for parroting western anti-China fabulism.
“You refuse to accept any data that does not confirm your own prejudiced preconceptions.”
True or false, are there state department/foreign office/intelligence links between Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the Guardian? Simple question. If the answer is yes (the answer is yes), then why would I take their pronouncements on the issues at hand seriously?
“You exhibit all the attributes of an anti-vaxxer, holocaust denier, 9/11, JFK, anti-evolution creationist, flat-earther, that there was no moon landing, climate change denialist conspiracist.”
You forgot old Nessie up in that most famous of Lochs. Now that’s a conspiracy a True Scotsman can get behind! That aside, your juvenile attempt at straw manning me is duly noted.
“You don’t even comprehend how ridiculous your claims are.”
Which claims would those be?
“It is no wonder you have never found a political party to call home. You never will.”
Admittedly, my purity test is of a high standard. To start, no credulous parroting of US propaganda narratives. You, Alan, failed at the first hurdle.
“You have more in common with AnonQ than any socialist organisation.”
Actually, it’s QAnon not AnonQ. If you’re going to be making up stories about me, at least try to get the names right.
“Even when the Russian government belatedly admit the Katyn massacre was carried out by the USSR, you will dismiss it as fake.”
Katyn? I’m so glad you brought it up. Katyn was literally a Nazi black-propaganda op cooked up by Goebbels. They’d just lost at Stalingrad 3 months earlier and in a desperate attempt to divide the allies “discovered” the bodies of the dead Polish officers. The Nazi’s didn’t even try to hide the fact that all the victims just happened to have been shot with German ammunition. Grover Furr has proved conclusively that the “official” story is nothing but a pack of lies. It warms my heart, that you,the brave bearer of the socialist flame regurgitates Nazi propaganda against the Soviet Union in defence of the fallen aristocrats of the Polish bourgeois army.
As to the bourgeois Russian Federation’s admittal, it means nothing. They’re as opposed to Stalin as any other capitalist regime and probably did so in a futile attempt to ingratiate themselves with Western Europe and the Poles. It was a dastardly act that I’m sure will be reversed one day in the future.
“And all of Stalin’s victims of his show trials and gulags were guilty.”
As a matter of fact, the defendants in the show trials were indeed guilty. The gulags housed regular criminals most for no more than 10 years. Apart from at the height of the war, the death rate in them was no different to that of the general population. You know nothing of serious history. Instead you vomit up bourgeois lies and call them your own. What a good little budgie.
“You may chalk this exchange as one of your “victories” and a “triumph” for your “truth” because I am no longer willing to engage any further with someone such as yourself.
Goodbye and good riddance”
Well, those words didn’t age well, did they? Maybe next time you utter them, you’ll really mean them.
Bijou, imagine the outcry if Irish nationalists, Scottish nationalists and Welsh nationalists who all have separatism as their aim were excluded from standing candidates in general or local elections and those who participate in marches supporting independence from the UK were deemed to be criminals.
On Sunday Hong Kong holds an election committee poll but the rules of it are now vastly changed from previous elections to ensure the result favours pro-Beijing supporters.
Jean-Pierre Cabestan, a professor of political science at Hong Kong’s Baptist University explained:
“This is not an election, it is a joke. We are moving further away from any form of democratic legitimacy. The Chinese Communist Party has always been good at constructing an ideal representation of society based on a mostly uncontested selection of elite representatives designed by itself. This applies in particular to the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference. In other words, the CCP-style of selection of obedient elites has now expanded to Hong Kong.”Steve Tsang, director of SOAS China Institute at the University of London, also explained.
“It is to allow for a ‘free election’ as long as the result is known to it and approved by it beforehand. The composition of the new Election Committee and the process will ensure no one not approved of by the party can be a candidate, let alone win,” he said.But as these two are neither CCP nor government spokespeople, we can ignore their informed knowledge and expertise.
Macao just held their elections – the lowest turnout ever at 42%
Eilo Yu Wing-yat, an associate professor at the University of Macau’s department of government and public administration, said: “Obviously, many supporters of pro-democracy candidates have resorted to casting blank votes or invalid votes to express their discontent as their favourite candidates had been disqualified by the government.”
This is actually our recommended electoral policy when we have no candidates standing – abstention.
Political scientist Chan Wai-keung, of Polytechnic University, said Macau’s polls could offer a hint of what was to come in this December’s Legislative Council elections in Hong Kong.
“The situations in Hong Kong and Macau are very similar,” Chan said. “The opposition camp is barred from running. In the past, it could mobilise a lot of people to vote. Without opposition candidates, their supporters might not be interested in the election at all. Like Macau, a rise in the number of blank votes or invalid votes could also be expected in the December Legco election.”When you can rig the rules, you can always guarantee the outcome, Bijou.
One good thing about the ‘TrueScotsman’ is that he reminds us just how reactionary many on the Left are and that socialists have no political common ground with them at any level.
“Bijou, imagine the outcry if Irish nationalists, Scottish nationalists and Welsh nationalists who all have separatism as their aim were excluded from standing candidates in general or local elections and those who participate in marches supporting independence from the UK were deemed to be criminals.”
Apples and oranges. Your analogy is as flawed as the rest of your thinking. A more apt analogy would be an aggressive foreign power invading Britain in order to force its population to become drug addicts. At the same time and at cannon point the invader leases to itself The City of London for 99 years. Finally the lease expires but the invader has not done with Britain. It sees Britain as an economic competitor, one that needs to be Balkanised. So it funds and advises fascist dupes within TCOL to riot and organise for seperatism. That would be far more accurate a comparison.
You go on to quote numerous quislings who support just such a policy. Shame on you, imperialist troll. I hereby strip you of your title to the name socialist. You are unworthy.
And stop it with your anti-China gish-galloping. It smacks of desperation. If you’re going to be an imperialist tool, at least have the courage to defend your arguments. You might actually earn a modicum of respect that way. Instead you obliviously allow me to wipe the floor with you as, without skipping a beat, you scroll down what appears to be a prepared list of US State Department talking points. Such a sad little budgie.
Wez, I wouldn’t say TS is representative of any substantial number of leftists. He is a contrarian outlier and outright liar.
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