Health and Capitalism

[alanjjohnstone]

There is indeed over-prescribing of medicines, particularly of anti-biotics, and the medical profession regularly warns of such. Often it is at the insistence of the patient, who has been brought up to believe that a pill is all that is needed. More of a concern is the medicalisation of certain social behaviours to widen the pharmaceutical market. Sadness, for instance is often diagnosed as depression. Even more worrying is the recent reports that the elderly are being doped up in the care-homes to make them more managable.More than 2.5 million Americans are currently addicted to opioids. Drug deaths have shot up since 2010, rising some 28 percent in just the past year, with nearly 175 Americans losing their lives to opioids every day.The healthcare industry is worth billions and we shouldn't be at all surprised that from insurance providers to managers of facilities are making profits from peoples bad health.

[Anonymous]

Hi AlanRe your post #28:According to the article mentioned,  it is also interesting to note that in Asia Pacific, antibiotic use in pig farming is a whopping 190% higher than in Europe (“only” 80% higher in the US)….Re your post #31:Yes, agreed, although –

Quote:

The healthcare industry is worth billions and we shouldn't be at all surprised that from insurance providers to managers of facilities are making profits from peoples bad health.

It’s not just managers of facilities who are being bribed, but professors, chief physicians, up to ministers of health – at least if you believe Gøtzsche.Meel

[Anonymous]

Well, Marcos, some of your points I agree with, other times I find your opinions rather dogmatic.  The world is nuanced.  The impression I get of your contributions, is that it is important for you to dump whatever is in your head onto the page, and less important to engage with people, whether to agree or disagree with their points.You mention poverty as a great cause of ill health in the world, and of course I agree with this. If you had carefully read through my previous posts, you would have noticed my agreement.  I also emphasise the importance of clean water and enough nutritious food, to build a healthy body and strengthen the immune system.If you had read all my posts, you would have understood that I do not reject modern medicine, only that I say – with Peter Gøtzsche– that as a society we should stop throwing so many different medicines down our throats, just because this is in the interest of pharmaceutical companies.For clarity:  I am not a believer in homeopathy.I am disappointed at your cavalier pop at shamanism.  I expected you, of all people, to have some understanding and respect for the traditions of the indigenous people of America.  You surely are aware of the great knowledge they had of medicinal plants – I said “had”, because this knowledge is being rapidly lost.  This knowledge was often held by shamans.In 2015 it was reported that a tribe in the Amazon, the Matsés peoples of Brazil and Peru, had created a 500-page encyclopaedia of their traditional medicine.  It was produced by 5 shamans with help from a conservation group.

Quote:

In one of the great tragedies of our age, indigenous traditions, stories, cultures and knowledge are winking out across the world. Whole languages and mythologies are vanishing, and in some cases even entire indigenous groups are falling into extinction. This is what makes the news that a tribe in the Amazon—the Matsés peoples of Brazil and Peru—have created a 500-page encyclopedia of their traditional medicine all the more remarkable. The encyclopedia, compiled by five shamans with assistance from conservation group Acaté, details every plant used by Matsés medicine to cure a massive variety of ailments.“The [Matsés Traditional Medicine Encyclopedia] marks the first time shamans of an Amazonian tribe have created a full and complete transcription of their medicinal knowledge written in their own language and words,” Christopher Herndon, president and co-founder of Acaté, told Mongabay in an interview (in full below).The Matsés have only printed their encyclopedia in their native language to ensure that the medicinal knowledge is not stolen by corporations or researchers as has happened in the past.[my emphasis]Instead, the encyclopedia is meant as a guide for training new, young shamans in the tradition and recording the living shamans’ knowledge before they pass.

Quote:

The Matsés live in one of the most biodiverse ecosystems on the planet and have mastered knowledge of the healing properties of its plants and animals.

Quote:

It is hard to overstate just how quickly this knowledge can be lost after a tribe makes contact with the outside world. Once extinguished, this knowledge, along with the tribe’s self-sufficiency, can never fully be reclaimed. Historically, what has followed the loss of endemic health systems in many indigenous groups is near total dependency on the rudimentary and extremely limited external health care that is available in such remote and difficult-to-access locations. Not surprisingly, in most countries, indigenous groups have the highest rates of mortality and disease.

Quote:

Unfortunately, history abounds with examples of theft from indigenous peoples. For the Matsés in particular, it is all too real. The skin secretions of the giant monkey frog (Phyllomedusa bicolor) are used in hunting rituals by the Matsés. The secretions, rich in a diversity of bioactive peptides, are administered directly into the body through application onto fresh burn or cut-wounds. Within moments, the toxins induce intense cardiovascular and autonomic responses, ultimately leading to a state of altered consciousness and heightened sensory acuity.Although the range of the giant monkey frog extends across northern Amazonia, only the Matsés and a small number of neighboring Panoan tribes have been recorded to use its powerful secretions. After reports of the Matsés use of it emerged from the forest, investigations of the frog’s secretions in the laboratory revealed a complex cocktail of peptides with potent vasoactive, narcotic, and antimicrobial properties. Several pharmaceutical companies and universities filed patents on the peptides without recognition of indigenous peoples for which it has long held a unique and important role in their culture. [my emphasis]One antifungal peptide from the frog was even transgenically inserted into a potato.

The complete article is here:https://news.mongabay.com/2015/06/amazon-tribe-creates-500-page-traditional-medicine-encyclopedia/It was reported here as well:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/andes-to-the-amazon/2017/nov/24/amazon-tribe-saves-plant-lore-with-healing-forests-and-encyclopediaBestMeel

[Anonymous]

meel2 wrote:

Well, Marcos, some of your points I agree with, other times I find your opinions rather dogmatic.  The world is nuanced.  The impression I get of your contributions, is that it is important for you to dump whatever is in your head onto the page, and less important to engage with people, whether to agree or disagree with their points.You mention poverty as a great cause of ill health in the world, and of course I agree with this. If you had carefully read through my previous posts, you would have noticed my agreement.  I also emphasise the importance of clean water and enough nutritious food, to build a healthy body and strengthen the immune system.If you had read all my posts, you would have understood that I do not reject modern medicine, only that I say – with Peter Gøtzsche– that as a society we should stop throwing so many different medicines down our throats, just because this is in the interest of pharmaceutical companies.For clarity:  I am not a believer in homeopathy.I am disappointed at your cavalier pop at shamanism.  I expected you, of all people, to have some understanding and respect for the traditions of the indigenous people of America.  You surely are aware of the great knowledge they had of medicinal plants – I said “had”, because this knowledge is being rapidly lost.  This knowledge was often held by shamans.In 2015 it was reported that a tribe in the Amazon, the Matsés peoples of Brazil and Peru, had created a 500-page encyclopaedia of their traditional medicine.  It was produced by 5 shamans with help from a conservation group.

Quote:

In one of the great tragedies of our age, indigenous traditions, stories, cultures and knowledge are winking out across the world. Whole languages and mythologies are vanishing, and in some cases even entire indigenous groups are falling into extinction. This is what makes the news that a tribe in the Amazon—the Matsés peoples of Brazil and Peru—have created a 500-page encyclopedia of their traditional medicine all the more remarkable. The encyclopedia, compiled by five shamans with assistance from conservation group Acaté, details every plant used by Matsés medicine to cure a massive variety of ailments.“The [Matsés Traditional Medicine Encyclopedia] marks the first time shamans of an Amazonian tribe have created a full and complete transcription of their medicinal knowledge written in their own language and words,” Christopher Herndon, president and co-founder of Acaté, told Mongabay in an interview (in full below).The Matsés have only printed their encyclopedia in their native language to ensure that the medicinal knowledge is not stolen by corporations or researchers as has happened in the past.[my emphasis]Instead, the encyclopedia is meant as a guide for training new, young shamans in the tradition and recording the living shamans’ knowledge before they pass.

Quote:

The Matsés live in one of the most biodiverse ecosystems on the planet and have mastered knowledge of the healing properties of its plants and animals.

Quote:

It is hard to overstate just how quickly this knowledge can be lost after a tribe makes contact with the outside world. Once extinguished, this knowledge, along with the tribe’s self-sufficiency, can never fully be reclaimed. Historically, what has followed the loss of endemic health systems in many indigenous groups is near total dependency on the rudimentary and extremely limited external health care that is available in such remote and difficult-to-access locations. Not surprisingly, in most countries, indigenous groups have the highest rates of mortality and disease.

Quote:

Unfortunately, history abounds with examples of theft from indigenous peoples. For the Matsés in particular, it is all too real. The skin secretions of the giant monkey frog (Phyllomedusa bicolor) are used in hunting rituals by the Matsés. The secretions, rich in a diversity of bioactive peptides, are administered directly into the body through application onto fresh burn or cut-wounds. Within moments, the toxins induce intense cardiovascular and autonomic responses, ultimately leading to a state of altered consciousness and heightened sensory acuity.Although the range of the giant monkey frog extends across northern Amazonia, only the Matsés and a small number of neighboring Panoan tribes have been recorded to use its powerful secretions. After reports of the Matsés use of it emerged from the forest, investigations of the frog’s secretions in the laboratory revealed a complex cocktail of peptides with potent vasoactive, narcotic, and antimicrobial properties. Several pharmaceutical companies and universities filed patents on the peptides without recognition of indigenous peoples for which it has long held a unique and important role in their culture. [my emphasis]One antifungal peptide from the frog was even transgenically inserted into a potato.

The complete article is here:https://news.mongabay.com/2015/06/amazon-tribe-creates-500-page-traditional-medicine-encyclopedia/It was reported here as well:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/andes-to-the-amazon/2017/nov/24/amazon-tribe-saves-plant-lore-with-healing-forests-and-encyclopediaBestMeel

What you have described they are not shaman they are called Medicine man or Paleros.( sticks, roots )  There are a lot of them in Cuba, South America and Central America. Shaman are described in the history of Medicine which is class given at most School of Medicine as a person which used spirits to cure the diseases of human beings, it was the time when diseases were considered as provoked by evil spirits, A Santeros is a real shaman. Neither you or have you have cited does not know what they are talking aboiutI am aware of the use of plants and roots that is being used by the natives of the Amazons, and i was not referring to them either, they are also used in the Caribbeans. Do not say things that I have not said, and do not pretend that you have the world holding in your hands, I have travelled in many countries in South America and I have seen them. There was one in a place called Cotui, he was the little boy of Cotui and he was killed.I am not dogmatic, and I have not given you the freedom to call me that, I know what I am talking about, You only cited what others peoples have said, I speak for myself, and I have seen the world on my own

[Anonymous]

meel2 wrote:

Marcos said:

Quote:

Most medications produce side effects, and when the sides effects are too high the medications are no longer used

You have a touching faith in Big Pharma and the agencies that regulate them.We are awash with medicines in the Western World – the number of approved drugs increases year-on -year – and still the rate of metabolic disease continues to climb, as do mental disorders.  If these medicines are so wonderful and beneficial, surely we should see improvements in health by now?According to Peter Gøtzsche (see my post #23): “Prescription drugs are the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer”.“… they (Big Pharma] have bought every type of person, even ministers of health in some countries….”“We have thousands of doctors on industry payrolls [in Denmark]….The drug industry buys the professors first, then chiefs of departments, then other chief physicians, they don’t buy junior doctors…..”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dozpAshvtsAMaybe a shaman might be worth trying after all – maybe you can recommend one?

 You are not telling me anything new, I have known that for a long time probably before than you. I do not need any link to know about that, I have my own independent analysis. I can recommend you a Shaman, take a trip to Cuba and you will find many of them available, or maybe you can consult with a Paleros, they also make medications from roots. I do not have faith in anything because I am not a religious person, I believe in scientific facts. I am going to give you  a list of Shaman( according to your definition )  that I knew or I know at the present timeMy personal doctor when I was a child used to make his own medications and he had a doctorate degree in Medicine which took him about 10 years to obtain it, and he cured many peoples, and he died risking his life for his patients. He has his own laboratory in his own house, he  did his own blood and urine  examination and counting of the cellsThe Pharmacist used to make their own medications they were trained to do that, and they also had a doctorate degree in Pharmacy and many peoples treated them like Medical doctors due to their knowledge. You can call them a ShamanThe world that you know is not the whole world there are many places with different type of experiences and knowledge, even more, Medicine was not created in the Western World, it  was born in Africa and in Egypt and they knew the cure of many diseases, and they used many natural medications including garlic to treat high blood pressure instead of chemicals I know another Shaman who has tree PhD in Medicine and he lives in the Caribbean and he makes his own medication too for his patients, he is also a Psychiatrist who studied in Barcelona, Spain, and I know another one who is curing cancer using vaccines made from plants, and he is not famous, he lives a simple life without any money.There is another Shaman who rides on a motorcycle to visit his patients and he is a paediatrician, his house is a clinic, and he has cured many children due to his dedication and devotion to Medicine.I know another Shaman who went from Russia to the Caribbean and she lives a simple life and she uses whatever resources she finds in order to cure his patients.I have an immune system that many peoples in the so called advanced countries do not have, and I grew in one of those places that the US president without having  any respect for other human beings  calls shithole or asshole country, I had natural vaccines against diseases, eating healthy foods,  such as wild fresh  pigeons, wild chickens, wild turkey, crabs,  breathing clean air, eating sea food everyday, walking a lot every day, swimming at the beaches and rivers, making a lot excercises and dancing, taking bath on thermal waters, eating a lot of tuberculous, drinking natural water, my dessert was in the backyard of my parents and grand parent  house, drinking goat milk, eating turtles eggs, duck eggs,  and turtle meat, drinking coconut water, grapes from the beach, eating cane, fruit shakes, . Food was cooked every day and i never ate fast food, they were unknownThere was no law against drinking alcohol or smoking and I do not drink or smoke, I have never used any kind of drugs, and I don't know the shape or colour of any drugs,   and I have control over my habits. There are many peoples hooked on Opioids medications but this society create anxiety in the human beings, and it also creates mental problems, and war also produced mental problems for us, but government want to blame on the peoples instead on the money producers, the same ones that create the drugs also create the antidote, like in the case of Methadone, and some places have been used as laboratory using human beings I had all kind of diseases when I was a child and my body cured them by itself and I am naturally immune to all those diseases, I have seen peoples of 40 years dead from a heart attack and stroke, or stress. and in my family we last for more than 100 years including my mother who is 97 and she is more healthy than many young women, she lived a peaceful life even that they had a business, but they enjoyed their natural lives. As you can see the problem of the so-called Western world is not only Medications produced by the Pharmaceutical it is also the type of life that we have lived and the problems that capitalism produce on us. 

[Anonymous]

meel2 wrote:

Well, Marcos, some of your points I agree with, other times I find your opinions rather dogmatic.  The world is nuanced.  The impression I get of your contributions, is that it is important for you to dump whatever is in your head onto the page, and less important to engage with people, whether to agree or disagree with their points.You mention poverty as a great cause of ill health in the world, and of course I agree with this. If you had carefully read through my previous posts, you would have noticed my agreement.  I also emphasise the importance of clean water and enough nutritious food, to build a healthy body and strengthen the immune system.If you had read all my posts, you would have understood that I do not reject modern medicine, only that I say – with Peter Gøtzsche– that as a society we should stop throwing so many different medicines down our throats, just because this is in the interest of pharmaceutical companies.For clarity:  I am not a believer in homeopathy.I am disappointed at your cavalier pop at shamanism.  I expected you, of all people, to have some understanding and respect for the traditions of the indigenous people of America.  You surely are aware of the great knowledge they had of medicinal plants – I said “had”, because this knowledge is being rapidly lost.  This knowledge was often held by shamans.In 2015 it was reported that a tribe in the Amazon, the Matsés peoples of Brazil and Peru, had created a 500-page encyclopaedia of their traditional medicine.  It was produced by 5 shamans with help from a conservation group.

Quote:

In one of the great tragedies of our age, indigenous traditions, stories, cultures and knowledge are winking out across the world. Whole languages and mythologies are vanishing, and in some cases even entire indigenous groups are falling into extinction. This is what makes the news that a tribe in the Amazon—the Matsés peoples of Brazil and Peru—have created a 500-page encyclopedia of their traditional medicine all the more remarkable. The encyclopedia, compiled by five shamans with assistance from conservation group Acaté, details every plant used by Matsés medicine to cure a massive variety of ailments.“The [Matsés Traditional Medicine Encyclopedia] marks the first time shamans of an Amazonian tribe have created a full and complete transcription of their medicinal knowledge written in their own language and words,” Christopher Herndon, president and co-founder of Acaté, told Mongabay in an interview (in full below).The Matsés have only printed their encyclopedia in their native language to ensure that the medicinal knowledge is not stolen by corporations or researchers as has happened in the past.[my emphasis]Instead, the encyclopedia is meant as a guide for training new, young shamans in the tradition and recording the living shamans’ knowledge before they pass.

Quote:

The Matsés live in one of the most biodiverse ecosystems on the planet and have mastered knowledge of the healing properties of its plants and animals.

Quote:

It is hard to overstate just how quickly this knowledge can be lost after a tribe makes contact with the outside world. Once extinguished, this knowledge, along with the tribe’s self-sufficiency, can never fully be reclaimed. Historically, what has followed the loss of endemic health systems in many indigenous groups is near total dependency on the rudimentary and extremely limited external health care that is available in such remote and difficult-to-access locations. Not surprisingly, in most countries, indigenous groups have the highest rates of mortality and disease.

Quote:

Unfortunately, history abounds with examples of theft from indigenous peoples. For the Matsés in particular, it is all too real. The skin secretions of the giant monkey frog (Phyllomedusa bicolor) are used in hunting rituals by the Matsés. The secretions, rich in a diversity of bioactive peptides, are administered directly into the body through application onto fresh burn or cut-wounds. Within moments, the toxins induce intense cardiovascular and autonomic responses, ultimately leading to a state of altered consciousness and heightened sensory acuity.Although the range of the giant monkey frog extends across northern Amazonia, only the Matsés and a small number of neighboring Panoan tribes have been recorded to use its powerful secretions. After reports of the Matsés use of it emerged from the forest, investigations of the frog’s secretions in the laboratory revealed a complex cocktail of peptides with potent vasoactive, narcotic, and antimicrobial properties. Several pharmaceutical companies and universities filed patents on the peptides without recognition of indigenous peoples for which it has long held a unique and important role in their culture. [my emphasis]One antifungal peptide from the frog was even transgenically inserted into a potato.

The complete article is here:https://news.mongabay.com/2015/06/amazon-tribe-creates-500-page-traditional-medicine-encyclopedia/It was reported here as well:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/andes-to-the-amazon/2017/nov/24/amazon-tribe-saves-plant-lore-with-healing-forests-and-encyclopediaBestMeel

The term is not modern medicine either. The term now used is molecular medicine, because everything is being studied at the level of the cell, that is the reason why in the School of medicine they have introduced something called Molecular and Celular Biology, and medicine is already moving toward Atomic medicine to study our atoms. The Shaman belong to the period of magical medicine where they believe that the spirits were inside the heads of the human beings that is reason why the used brain trepanation and diseases were produced by spirits, the concept of pathology ( study of suffering )  has not been introduced yet.

[alanjjohnstone]

I accept you are not an anti-vaxer, Meel, so this is directed to Marcos to support his positionhttps://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/19/who-warns-over-measles-immunisation-rates-as-cases-rise-400-across-europe"Every new person affected by measles in Europe reminds us that unvaccinated children and adults, regardless of where they live, remain at risk of catching the disease and spreading it to others who may not be able to get vaccinated,” said Dr Zsuzsanna Jakab, WHO regional director for Europe. 

[Author]

Posts