Health and Capitalism
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Meel, as someone who has been advised to take statins for high cholesterol at a time when it was still under patent and generics not available so discontinued usage by myself because of cost, and from a family with no genetic disposition to heart disease, i found this an interesting article. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/01/nearly-all-men-over-60-and-women-over-75-eligible-for-statins-analysis-suggestsA captive market for the pharmaceutical industry, mezinks.But if tomorrow i drop down dead from a heart attack, please reconsider this post
Hi AlanQuoting from the article you’ve linked to:“To make progress in the battle against heart disease and stroke, we must encourage exercise, improve our diets still further, stop smoking, and where appropriate offer statins to people at risk.”Why cannot doctors’ surgeries spend more time attacking the cause, rather than trying to paper over the cracks? Why not have massive public health consultations, with recommendations for an improved diet plus exercise (and of course, no smoking) – a lifestyle change – with the patients coming back to the surgery for follow ups? I think I know the answer.Soon these drugs will just be handed over to men over 60, women over 75 – or so it’s been suggested:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4747976/Experts-statins-men-60-women-75.htmlThere are dissenting voices over this constant mantra that cholesterol must be lowered:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.htmlGood luck with your heart health, by the way!Meel
To wrap up these recent threads of mine, I would like to post a couple of links at the bottom of this post which further underline my concerns.I have expressed concern at the type of food we eat which make us chronically sick (i.e., we don't fall over dead straight away but suffer over many years and may eventually die from whatever ailment), then the pharmaceutical companies step in with medicines which are supposed to counteract the results of the bad food, drink and lack of exercise. Quite possibly these medicines have harmful side effects over the long term, and some of them might not even work that well, or not at all.It could sound like a conspiracy between the food manufacturers and the pharmaceutical companies; I don't think it is, though, I just think it's part and parcel of how capitalism functions.Jondwhite said:
Quote:The pharmaceutical industry (and the product vaccines) are no more (or less) profit driven than the food industry or water industry or energy industry.Yes, you could say that about any aspect of capitalism. But I thought one of the reasons for this forum, was to discuss aspects of capitalism that work against workers’ interest? Capitalism’s negative influence on health happens to be something that interests me; you may be more interested in other areas.
Quote:Poor but healthy workers are better than poor sick consumers, from a capitalist point of view.Not necessarily, from the point of view of a capitalist that produces drugs. A population beaming with good health would be very bad news to such a capitalist. They would not at all be interested in promoting a campaign which said; 1) Drink clean water (developing countries, mainly), 2) Eat fresh food rather than processed food, 3) Exercise every day, 4) Get enough rest, 5) Ensure you get social input. Why, people might end up much healthier, bad news!Obviously, if workers start taking a lot of time off work due to bad health, this is not good for capitalists generally. But this is part and parcel of capitalism, it is full of contradictions. By the way, the US military is already worried about the bad health and weight issues of its recruits – such a lot of them fail the selection process.A couple of links before I finish – this from the US:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jun/20/healthcare-drugspolicyAnd this one from the UK, an interesting one – but sorry about the source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3460321/How-Big-Pharma-greed-killing-tens-thousands-world-Patients-medicated-given-profitable-drugs-little-proven-benefits-leading-doctors-warn.html
Coincidentally, this UK press release on polio vaccination campaign appearedhttps://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/aug/04/uk-pledges-100m-global-efforts-eradicate-polio
We need to be careful about all of this. I am taking statins daily following some mini-strokes I had a few years back. Certainly there is over prescription of them by overworked GPs, but I have not had any recurrence of the main problem.
Hi MattYou said:
Quote:We need to be careful about all of this. I am taking statins daily following some mini-strokes I had a few years back. Certainly there is over prescription of them by overworked GPs, but I have not had any recurrence of the main problem.We all have to take care of our health the best we can. I wish you all the best with yours, Matt.Going back to the very first contribution I made on these topics, my questioning all came about because I watched the extraordinary amount of medicines elderly relatives were given over a period of time. At no time am I aware that they were given any advice on and/or real encouragement regarding making lifestyle changes (i.e., diet and regular exercise). Much the same, or worse, is happening as in mental health and in mental health hospitals. There’s a veritable tsunami of drugs being given out to people. I just started asking myself; is all of this really necessary, is it safe – or is somebody just making a packet out of it?Going back to the article by George Monbiot I linked to in a previous post, it appears that science research is very often bought and paid for. With research being paid for by pharmaceutical companies, scientific papers being ghost written by scientists not even reading the final product – what can we trust?To highlight how big companies twist things their way, let me take another example, from a pesticide producer this time: Monsanto.They have been under fire recently regarding claims that their Roundup herbicide (containing the herbicide glyphosate) can cause cancer.A high-ranking Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is under investigation for allegedly being in the pay of Monsanto. In April 1915 he allegedly bragged that he could “kill” investigations into glyphosfate:
Quote:Staes [a Belgian member of parliament representing the Green Party] said the glyphosate lawsuit in the U.S. has spurred further concern that Monsanto has colluded with purportedly independent scientists: “We are now getting some written proof of collusion between scientists and Monsanto, which has these scientists like puppets on a string. [my emphasis]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/epa-inspector-general-probing-collusion-with-monsanto_us_59372108e4b0aba888b99dcaNot only do they manipulate the science, they also pay off journalists – and pay internet trolls to pester those who threaten their version of events:https://www.ecowatch.com/monsanto-hires-internet-trolls-2401703407.htmlIt seems these companies are willing to go to any lengths to protect and further their interests.MeelPS: I’ve changed the header slightly for this topic, to broaden it to all aspects of health and capitalism.
Quote:It seems these companies are willing to go to any lengths to protect and further their interests.Need we go any further than proving our case than citing the tobacco/nicotine industry which is still poisoning millions of people around the world legally.
Quote:Quote:It seems these companies are willing to go to any lengths to protect and further their interests.Need we go any further than proving our case than citing the tobacco/nicotine industry which is still poisoning millions of people around the world legally.
Yes, the well-off now know it’s dangerous to smoke, and also not glamourous anymore, so the tobacco firms target poor people all over the world.Did you know, though, that doctors once advertised cigarettes (some of them were paid for their endorsements, apparently):http://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/throwback-thursday-when-doctors-prescribed-healthy-cigarette-brands-165404/
Quote:When you knit this together into a full story, the scope of it and the way it duped the public was just incredible,” said Robert K. Jackler, MD, Sewall Professor and Chair, otolaryngology – head and neck surgery at Stanford University Medical Center.https://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-today/%7B241d62a7-fe6e-4c5b-9fed-a33cc6e4bd7c%7D/cigarettes-were-once-physician-tested-approvedWhere the US leads the way, Europe is sure to follow. Childhood chronic diseases have increased at a fast rate in the US:
Quote:Approximately 27% of U.S. children live with chronic health conditions that can affect their daily lives and normal activities. These maladies often contribute greatly to school absenteeism and require continual medical attention.Quote:While genes may play a role in obesity, asthma and ADHD, environmental and social changes are behind the surge, researchers said.https://www.focusforhealth.org/chronic-illnesses-and-the-state-of-our-childrens-health/Quite. And exactly what factors in the environment, we may ask. In trying to answer this question, nothing should be off the table – the food people eat, pesticides and herbicides, air pollution, lack of exercise, side effects of drugs – and, yes, even vaccines – I cannot see why these should be excused scrutiny.Mental health conditions are on the increase everywhere, again, especially in the US, but Europe is catching up. What could it be? Certainly, people get stressed living in capitalism; poverty and insecurity take their toll – but what if the threshold for what is considered “depression”, for example, is lowered (thus increasing the potential market for antidepressants)? What if manufacturers develop a psychiatric drug, and then try to get professionals to “invent” an illness to fit the drug?Some physicians speak out against the “pill for every ill” culture and usually get ostracised for it. One is the Danish doctor, Peter Gøtzsche, who has written a book exposing big pharma as organized crime:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dozpAshvtsAA bit more about Gøtzsche’s background:http://nordic.cochrane.org/peter-c-g%C3%B8tzscheI don’t think the pharmaceutical companies are steered by a moral compass, any more than the tobacco companies were (or are).
The UK is now the worst country in Europe for buying so-called “ultra-processed food” – additive laden factory made food containing virtually no nutritious, natural ingredients. This now constitutes 50.7% of household purchases in this country.This study of 19 European countries was published this month in a special issue of the journal Public Health Nutrition.
Quote:Professor Carlos Monteiro from the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil, who led the research team, told the Guardian of his deep concern about the links between ultra-processed food with obesity and poor health.Quote:There are two problems with all this, he said. People are missing out not only on vitamins and minerals but also bioactive compounds found in natural foods such as phytoestrogens and fibre.“And then you get salt and starch and sugar and fat and all these additives. We are consuming every day an amount of new substances that are these flavours and colours and emulsifiers and we don’t have any idea as to what will be the problem of these items,” he said.Regulations concerning the use of additives and flavouring date mostly from the past century and were focused on whether or not they caused cancer, he said. Other cumulative effects of eating these industrially-made substances are not yet known.“The honest answer is we don’t know what is going on,” said Monteiro.It is interesting that the Mediterranean countries are still holding out against this processed food epidemic, with Portugal only consuming 10.2% of such food, Italy 13.4% and Greece 13.7.https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/02/ultra-processed-products-now-half-of-all-uk-family-food-purchasesPerhaps capitalists are trying to disrupt our brain function and just slow us down generally, by slowly poisoning us with rubbish food? A contributor on this forum said in a previous exchange that capitalists do not want a sick workforce. I would dispute that. The food companies just do not care as long as they make a profit – the pharmaceutical companies are rubbing their hands in glee as they can sell lots of drugs to combat the metabolic diseases that result from the ultra-processed food – and as for the rest of the capitalists….. These diseases take many years to manifest themselves, making people gradually sicker as the years go by. As long as they can drag themselves to work – which in the main they do – who cares if they eventually die; we have a buyers’ market for labour power at the moment. There are plenty of willing workers to take their place.Then it’s the other horror story of what is done to our meat production. The EU, although flawed, still have some controls in place. In the US it’s like the Wild West as to what they can do to their meat. This was highlighted in an article today by George Monbiot:
Quote:The EU bans imports of meat produced by some of the disgusting means developed in the US, such as injecting cattle with growth-promoting hormones, feeding pigs on ractopamine (a drug that raises their weight but can cause their bones to break and their motor functions to degenerate), and washing chicken carcasses with chlorine. This means that the cheapest, nastiest meat, whose production is most dependent on mass medication with antibiotics, is excluded, offering farmers here a degree of protection. Exposed to full competition from the US model, they would be faced with a choice of replicating its excesses or going under.Does anyone trust the UK government to maintain EU standards once we leave? I don’t. The US government appears to see us as its European beachhead. In November Trump’s commerce secretary, Wilbur Ross, announced that scrapping the EU food rules that currently apply here would be a “critical component of any trade discussion” with the UK.Although being in or out of the EU is largely irrelevant to workers – we have capitalism either way, and a particular venal form of it at the moment: neoliberalism – the question is, what will happen to our food if the US is given carte blanche to export their food into the UK with no checks or regulations?https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/14/us-trade-deal-government-farming-practices-livestock-antibiotics
Most vaccines are safe, and before they are released they undergo different types of testing and safety investigation. There is a tendency in this society to turn everything into a conspiracy. I have studied Pharmacology, Microbiology, Medical Genetics, Immunology, and others medical courses, and I have not seen anything wrong with the prevention of diseases, and the use of vaccines, there are more incurable diseases that curable disease. Most medications produce side effects, and when the sides effects are too high the medications are no longer used The case that vaccines produced autism is totally wrong, there are more genetical causes than environmental causes, and sometimes the age of the parents is an influential factor, the American Pedriatic Association has proven that vaccines do not produce autism. With the final development of humane genome and more study in Medical Genetic more 2500 hereditary diseases have been discovered. Water, air, and food produced more diseases, mental disorders, and death than vaccines. Like a relative of mine which is a Psychiatrists says: They are killing us with what we need to stay alive which is food, and water.Most rivers and oceans are contaminated with mercury, radioactive materials and waste dumped into them, even more, bottled water is not safe either, they do not filter heavy metal and the bottle itself is not safe, those expensive containers that peoples carry to drink water they leak aluminium and copper. In China, they are producing many cooking utensils that are not safe and peoples are buying them in large quantity including stainless steel. The only safe one is ceramic.Most cities tolerate certain amount of toxic material in the water, and many cities do not have the money to change all their lead pipes and it is known that lead produces mental retardation in children. There are children who have already the tendency to have vascular diseases due to the type of diet that they have and the types of food that they eating, and poverty is another factor that influences in the death of many children The case against vaccines is as old as the scientist who used it for the first time in Europe, and his discovery prevented the spread of many diseases, but before that, the Chinese, the Egyptian and the Turkish were using vaccines to prevent diseases. If vaccines are not used how can doctors and others scientist prevent diseases? Are we going to come back to the 50,000 years of magical medicine and Shamanism? Some government wanted to eliminate vaccines because they are cutting all the social benefits and they are looking for all kind of justifications to continue with their plans
Hi MarcosI see that you have chosen to address my post #1, rather than my latest one, #24? If that is not correct, please let me know which post you are commenting on.
Quote:If vaccines are not used how can doctors and others scientist prevent diseases?Where have I said that vaccines should not be used?
Quote:Are we going to come back to the 50,000 years of magical medicine and Shamanism?Where have I said that we should go back to magical medicine and Shamanism?Quotes, please.CheersMeel
meel2 wrote:Hi MarcosI see that you have chosen to address my post #1, rather than my latest one, #24? If that is not correct, please let me know which post you are commenting on.Quote:If vaccines are not used how can doctors and others scientist prevent diseases?Where have I said that vaccines should not be used?
Quote:Are we going to come back to the 50,000 years of magical medicine and Shamanism?Where have I said that we should go back to magical medicine and Shamanism?Quotes, please.CheersMeel
I am not referring to any type, or numbers of posts, or whatever you have said or have not said. I am referring to the whole issue o vaccines.
Meel, i think the public should be aware that the EU overall does have a more stringent food safety laws in place than the US and when Brexit happens and the UK and the US make a bilateral trade deal, the import of poorer quality of food produce will increase.Here is a recent news item to strengthen your argument. The US applies twice as much antibiotics to their pigs than the UK. http://www.pig-world.co.uk/news/us-antibiotic-in-pigs-twice-as-high-as-in-the-uk.html
Quote:Ted McKinney, US Under Secretary for Trade and Foreign Agricultural Affairs USDA, said he was ‘sick and tired’ of hearing Britain’s concerns about chlorine washed chicken and US food standards.“We would hold our food safety and environmental and animal welfare standards up against the UK any day of the week and twice on Sunday,” he said.The ASOA’s Suzi Shingler said “If Mr McKinney wants something to worry about other than chlorine washed chicken, he might want to turn his attention to the extraordinarily high levels of antibiotics used in US meat production. “Our investigation shows that US cattle farmers are massively overusing antibiotics. Trade negotiators who may be tempted to lift the ban on US beef should not only be considering the impact of growth hormones, but also of antibiotic resistance due to rampant antibiotic use.”Quote:Kath Dalmeny of the Sustain food and health charity, and author of ‘Ten red lines for UK trade deals for food, farming and fishing’ said: “Trade negotiators are champing at the bit to open up new markets for US meat and using the excuse of ‘cheapness’ to counter health concerns. But cheap meat comes at a high price – often lower standards of cleanliness, animal welfare and high use of antibiotics. Any trade deals must aim to support high standards so that human and animal health and welfare are protected.”Marcos said:
Quote:Most medications produce side effects, and when the sides effects are too high the medications are no longer usedYou have a touching faith in Big Pharma and the agencies that regulate them.We are awash with medicines in the Western World – the number of approved drugs increases year-on -year – and still the rate of metabolic disease continues to climb, as do mental disorders. If these medicines are so wonderful and beneficial, surely we should see improvements in health by now?According to Peter Gøtzsche (see my post #23): “Prescription drugs are the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer”.“… they (Big Pharma] have bought every type of person, even ministers of health in some countries….”“We have thousands of doctors on industry payrolls [in Denmark]….The drug industry buys the professors first, then chiefs of departments, then other chief physicians, they don’t buy junior doctors…..”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dozpAshvtsAMaybe a shaman might be worth trying after all – maybe you can recommend one?
Polio vaccines do not produce polio because they are using the killed virus to produce the vaccines. That vaccine has prevented the death of many children. The whole issue about diseases is that most counties do not want to admit that poverty is one of the main producers of diseases around the world and they want to blame it on the medical profession. Many children has had Polio due to others factors that are not related to the vaccines. By just looking at the statistic we can see that most diseases and epidemic take place in countries where they do not have any diseases prevention and where the government are not spending any money on medical services like in the case of Haiti and Africa.In Puerto Rico, more peoples died after the hurricane that during the hurricane due to the consequences created by poverty and poor infrastructure and the lack of medical services, and hospitals, Cuba a small island in the Caribbean comparatively is graduating more doctors than that all the medical schools in the USA and they have vaccines for cancer that only cost a few dollars.Doctors were asking peoples to leave the islands and look for better services in the USA, and the contamination of rivers produced more diseases known as leptospirosis, and medical doctors are declaring that the School of Medicine are not preparing them for this type of diseases, and that is Tropical disease, but in Cuba they have injections, pills and vaccines to prevent this disease and it is part of the Curriculum ( or Pensum ) of the Schools of MedicineThere are many diseases that used to be known as Diseases of Poverty that are coming back including Tuberculosis and Leprosy, and they are coming back in countries like the US and Canada, in some countries peoples have been brainwashed in order to eliminate control and regulations to favour the rich peoples, and they are blaming everything on the poor peoples, the slaves against the slaves, or changing medical services for machine guns and national pride
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