Good News: And No Religion, Too
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TM – why do you continually speak of our ‘smallness’? Small is good, microchips are quite impressive wouldn’t you say? Indeed you could say that inner-space is as infinitesimal as outer-space is huge. Size is not relevant here. We are part of the universe and we are good at abstract thought which brought about science which, by your own logic, must be an example of the universe becoming conscious of itself. The term ‘proper humility’ sounds very Christian to me.
I agree with you about size.
But you are assuming that consciousness is only our kind of consciousness.
We know, from our own brains and nerves, that matter thinks and feels. So it has consciousness. Our type of consciousness, or intelligence, results from the specific formation of our material being, the material formation of animals on this planet. What of other formations of matter?
When we say we think and feel, we can only comprehend those words as members of an Earthling animal species.
We are an example, one terrestrial example, of matter being conscious. There are doubtless trillions of examples who could equally think it their “role” to “introduce” self-knowledge to the cosmos, which you appear to be claiming as our “role”, as though we have an importance beyond ourselves.
Even if we establish socialism in our society, it does not guarantee that we will still exist for long in evolutionary terms. As Great Apes, Gould says, we are a branch that evolution has not much more to do with, having exhausted adaptation. This makes us ripe for extinction. Even if we have tens of thousands of years left, we are likely to become extinct without discovering life beyond this planet.
To say it is our role to bring self-consciousness to the universe is, therefore, arrogant and ludicrous.
As for humility, who can behold the cosmos without feeling awe, vulnerability and humility? Even if we have millions of years left as a species, we will only ever comprehend the equivalent of a speck of dust. We are still ignorant of more than 99.9% of fellow beings on our own planet!
‘To say it is our role to bring self-consciousness to the universe is, therefore, arrogant and ludicrous.’
I’m not saying that at all. I’m just using your own logic – we are part of the universe and we are conscious of it. As you say there may be many other examples of the cosmos becoming conscious of itself and we are one of those examples. You say we should feel ‘awe’ but it is equally appropriate to feel lost within an immensity of nothing. Cold dark space provokes nothing in me but fear and loneliness. This tiny blue dot within the infinite may be the only example for billions of light years of the evolution of consciousness and I think this deserves the awe of which you speak not the lifeless void of space dotted with equally dead rocky planets.‘I’m terrified instead by human actions.’
If the concept of an infinite void doesn’t scare you a little then you’re very unusual. Of course you’re right to be terrified of some human actions but there are also examples of heroism, self-sacrifice, incredible intelligence and creativity – one shouldn’t ‘throw the baby out with the bath water.’An infinite “void” is ok with me. I would be frightened if other worlds were to threaten our imminent destruction – a wandering gas giant for instance, about to swallow the Earth, but it isn’t likely in our lifetime.
A nuclear war, on the other hand, could be very likely in our lifetime.For you space is an infinite void. For me, I think galaxies, distant exploding suns, stellar clouds etc. are incredibly beautiful and wondrous.
I see space as a rich cosmic soup, bursting with energy and movement. Planets so varied and colourful. To know my atoms and those I have loved will be hurtling through space and forming trillions, zillions, of forms, including life forms, billions of years from now, is exhilarating. What types of conscious life they may even build one day … it’s beyond our perception.
And nothing does not exist.
You see nothing when closing your hand in the air. In fact you have just grasped trillions of particles. You walk through clouds of atoms and subatomic particles, which others have breathed in and out, which have formed countless existences and are continuing to do so … mammalian, reptilian, arthropodic, dinosaurine, botanic, your ancestors, of countless species.
You call what is invisible to you a void; I call it a soup.It strikes me that we are being asked here, with talk of awe, wondrous, nirvana, etc to take the same attitude to the universe as christians take towards their god. They sing “O God, how great thou art”, “I am weak but thou art strong”, “when I survey the wondrous cross I pour contempt on all my pride”. We are being asked to sing “O Cosmos, thou art vast but I am but a speck of dust” “when I survey thou I pour contempt on all my pride” (I feel all ‘umble). You won’t catch singing that.
In other words, we are being asked to take a religious attitude towards the universe. But why? What’s the point? The most you could say is that in worshipping the universe you are at least worshipping something that exists, not a figment the imagination.
Personally, I don’t understand what “awe” is or what it feels like to experience it. Perhaps someone can explain but I doubt it can be done without being either poetic or pretentious.
Personally, I don’t understand what “awe” is or what it feels like to experience it. Perhaps someone can explain but I doubt it can be done without being either poetic or pretentious.
Of course nobody can explain what awe is or what it feels like to experience it anymore than one can explain what it feels like to be in love which presumably you haven’t experienced either. How sad.
I think ALB is correct – like so many romantics TM has simply substituted the cosmos for God. John Carpenter’s ‘Dark Star’ gives us a comedic perspective on space where the crew of a spaceship are driven mad by the tedious nothingness that is space. For ‘something’ to exist we need the concept of ‘nothing’ to render it comprehensible. When I close my hand within the earth’s atmosphere of course I’m aware (intellectually) of the existence of particles and atoms – not to mention gravity and air pressure but when I close my hand in outer space there is literally nothing there except the occasional passing photon or neutrino. I’m rather surprised by just how disingenuous that remark is.
‘Of course nobody can explain what awe is or what it feels like to experience it anymore than one can explain what it feels like to be in love which presumably you haven’t experienced either. How sad.’
But that’s all artists, poets and romantic novelists attempt to do ad nauseam. Perhaps you should pick up a book occasionally Lizzie.
Most working class folk experience awe as an expression of disappointment, disenchantment and disillusion – awwww…
Well, if nobody can tell me what “awe” is or is like I’ll have to have recourse to the dictionaries.
Here are some definitions I found:
“a feeling of reverential respect mixed with fear or wonder.”
“an emotion variously combining dread, veneration, and wonder that is inspired by authority or by the sacred or sublime”.
“an overwhelming feeling of reverence, admiration, fear, etc., produced by that which is grand, sublime, extremely powerful, or the like”
Sorry but I have never felt that and don’t particularly want to. It seems too bound up with religion.
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