Global Resource Bank

[John Pozzi]

mmalcome1 wrote:What is your definition of capital? John's reply:My definition of capital is the world's stocks of natural assets which include geology, soil, air, water, light, energy, land, food, shelter, climate, human ecology, law, biodiversity, and consciousness, and all living things. It is from this natual capital that humans derive a wide range of services, often called ecosystem services, which make human life possible including: Wealth, whether in ecos or property, owned by shareholders or commercial accounts. – The accumulated stock of the wealth of the natural environment valued in the GRB eco reserve. – Shareholder eco investments in ecosystems for the production and recycling of natural resources. – And, Everyone owns 1 share of the GRB. – No more, No less – that's the GRB society.

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 mmalcome1 wrote: The only ones who talk about capitalism without  a state are the anarcho capitalists, which are not Anarchists,  John: GRB shareholders are natural capitalists without a state who convert their $ assets to ecos and settle the public debt with ecos  thereby converting Malcome's capitalists to GRB shareholders. – That's evolution not revolution. – mmalcome1 wrote: capitalism without a state (and its army) is an impossibilityJohn: You got that right! Free at last. – Martin Luther King Jr.Network GRB  –  www.GRB.net

[Anonymous]

See http://www.GRB.net NOW!!!. Go to www,GRB TODAY!!! NETWORK GRB!!Don't hesitate go to http://www.GRB now for your free Parker pen.!!! Get your free ads at the SPGB website NOW How many more times do we have to listen to adverts before admin removes them

[John Pozzi]

Vin wrote:See http://www.GRB.net NOW!!!Thanks for the advert Vin,Ponzi

[moderator1]

Reminder: 3. Do not use the forums to send spam, advertisements, charitable appeals, solicitations, or other messages primarily intended to promote a particular product, service, campaign, website, organisation, venture, or event, unless it is relevant to the SPGB or its companion parties, without first obtaining permission from the moderators.

[Anonymous]

Vin wrote:

See http://www.GRB.net NOW!!!. Go to www,GRB TODAY!!! NETWORK GRB!!Don't hesitate go to http://www.GRB now for your free Parker pen.!!! Get your free ads at the SPGB website NOW How many more times do we have to listen to adverts before admin removes them

You are talking to deaf mude 

[moderator1]

mcolome1 wrote:

Vin wrote:

See http://www.GRB.net NOW!!!. Go to www,GRB TODAY!!! NETWORK GRB!!Don't hesitate go to http://www.GRB now for your free Parker pen.!!! Get your free ads at the SPGB website NOW How many more times do we have to listen to adverts before admin removes them

You are talking to deaf mude 

Now that the proposal by John Pozzi has been rebutted and I've posted a reminder any more advertising by him will be removed to the Off-topic section.

[Anonymous]

John Pozzi wrote:

Vin wrote:See http://www.GRB.net NOW!!!Thanks for the advert Vin,Ponzi

This is another spammer who wants to flood this forum on socialism with commercial advertising and capitalist garbage  and take us like a bunch of fool  Are we the yunkard of the bourgeoise ideology ?  It would be better to have Lennists. Maoists and Stalinists in this forum  than having troll spammers xenophobic ultra nationalists pro capitalist lovers. Anti workers and ultra right wingers  We need workers willing to learn about socialism and to remove from their consciousness the capitalist ideology but these troll are bringing more of the same shit 

[Anonymous]

John Pozzi wrote:

mmalcome1 wrote:What is your definition of capital? John's reply:My definition of capital is the world's stocks of natural assets which include geology, soil, air, water, light, energy, land, food, shelter, climate, human ecology, law, biodiversity, and consciousness, and all living things. It is from this natural capital that humans derive a wide range of services, often called ecosystem services, which make human life possible including: Wealth, whether in ecos or property, owned by shareholders or commercial accounts. – The accumulated stock of the wealth of the natural environment valued in the GRB eco reserve. – Shareholder eco-investments in ecosystems for the production and recycling of natural resources. – And, Everyone owns 1 share of the GRB. – No more, No less – that's the GRB society.

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 mmalcome1 wrote: The only ones who talk about capitalism without  a state are the anarcho-capitalists, which are not Anarchists,  John: GRB shareholders are natural capitalists without a state who convert their $ assets to ecos and settle the public debt with ecos thereby converting Malcome's capitalists to GRB shareholders. – That's evolution, not revolution. – mmalcome1 wrote: capitalism without a state (and its army) is an impossibilityJohn: You got that right! Free at last. – Martin Luther King Jr.Network GRB  –  www.GRB.net

Your definition of Capital is totally wrong, and you are wasting your time and our time in this forum because we do not support capitalism, and we do not admire capitalists. Capital is a product of human exploitation which the capitalist class expropriates from the labor of others and in simple term it is called robbery. Your definition of Capital does not even get close to the definition given by the bourgeoisie economists.Do not include me within your definition of capital and capitalism because I am not one of them, I am not an exploiter, and I do not admire capitalism, it is natural that you admire capitalism because you grew in a society where 99% of the workers do not know what capitalism really is, and what the capitalists really are and what they do in the society, it is total alienation, and it is a society that is anti-critical toward capitalismThis is the real definition of capitalismhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/english/what-capitalismIn the above  definition and description of capitalism, we do not skip the concept of class and class struggle, in opposition to your definition which does not mention the struggle between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat, your definition sound like a social brotherhood, a bed of roses, typical bourgoise conception wanting to hide the stuggles between two social classes that are enemy of each otherThis is the real social definition of Capital and its relationship with Labor, and how profit is producedhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/Your concept of exploitation is wrong too, and the real term is economical exploitation,  a process thru which the capitalist class extract its profits from the labor of the working class, that is reason why I said that in order for  us to become capitalists  all of us as you propose,  we must exploit each other, we must rob each other. even more some leftwingers are mistaken too, because they think that exploitation is just working longer hours, with the introduction of machinery and fixed capital the capitalist are able to obtain high level of profits in short period of time. If we look to the capitalist society toward all angles we can see that it is not beneficial to the working classWe do not want to become capitalists, we do not want to exploit each others, we do not want any evolution, this is not a biological issue, this is a social issue, we want a revolution, and the revolution must start in our minds by removing from our consciouness all this capitalist garbabe similar to the ones that you are proposing,  we  want to get rid of this economical system and replace it  with a new society without capital, and without capitalist, therefore, you are wasting your time 

[Anonymous]

Dave B wrote:

Art. 3. BANK ASSETS: The assets claimed by the Bank are the resources of nature outside national jurisdiction. The shareholders value the natural production capacity of ecosystems in this region at 6,000 trillion Global Resource Bank dollars on par with United States dollars. http://www.newciv.org/whole/globalresource.html what would be an example of  "resources of nature outside national jurisdiction" oil wells, land, sunshine, sheep???????????? 

@Dave B."resources of nature outside national jurisdiction" is more of an open definition than a prespcriptive list.  Basically anything that's not cliamed as property in the capitalist based economy at the moment. So presently "Air" and "Ocean" and "space" would qualify as capital assets outside of the national jurisdiction.  But the "resources of nature" could be less-tangible and more abstract resources like "ecosystem health" or "the safety of drinking water out of the hudson river without getting sick".  These "resources of nature" can be measured and their value estimated just like gold is weighed and value estimated for gold.  While you can't physically touch "ecosystem Health" and hold it in your hands, it can still be used as a measure of value and exchange just like you can exchange dollar bills. dollar bills are an abstract measure of capital value only and don't measure environmental ecosystem value directly.  Since "ecosystem value" is not counted in any particular dollar bill or devided equally for all dollar bills, then it is outside of the USA national jurisdiction.  USA jurisdiction may influence dollar value through many methods like quantative easing, but you can't quantative ease an ecosystem health measurement of value.The limitation on "outside of natural jurisdiction" seems to be the deleberately broadest category possible defined as "everything else".  or so it seems to me.  

[Anonymous]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

Dave B wrote:

Art. 3. BANK ASSETS: The assets claimed by the Bank are the resources of nature outside national jurisdiction. The shareholders value the natural production capacity of ecosystems in this region at 6,000 trillion Global Resource Bank dollars on par with United States dollars. http://www.newciv.org/whole/globalresource.html what would be an example of  "resources of nature outside national jurisdiction" oil wells, land, sunshine, sheep???????????? 

@Dave B."resources of nature outside national jurisdiction" is more of an open definition than a prespcriptive list.  Basically anything that's not cliamed as property in the capitalist based economy at the moment. So presently "Air" and "Ocean" and "space" would qualify as capital assets outside of the national jurisdiction.  But the "resources of nature" could be less-tangible and more abstract resources like "ecosystem health" or "the safety of drinking water out of the hudson river without getting sick".  These "resources of nature" can be measured and their value estimated just like gold is weighed and value estimated for gold.  While you can't physically touch "ecosystem Health" and hold it in your hands, it can still be used as a measure of value and exchange just like you can exchange dollar bills. dollar bills are an abstract measure of capital value only and don't measure environmental ecosystem value directly.  Since "ecosystem value" is not counted in any particular dollar bill or devided equally for all dollar bills, then it is outside of the USA national jurisdiction.  USA jurisdiction may influence dollar value through many methods like quantative easing, but you can't quantative ease an ecosystem health measurement of value.The limitation on "outside of natural jurisdiction" seems to be the deleberately broadest category possible defined as "everything else".  or so it seems to me.  

 So, What is your conclusion ? How do you apply what you have said that our main objective which is socialism ? 

[John Pozzi]

mmalcome1 wrote: you are wasting your time. mmalcome1 does not want any evolution to the information age, i.e., the process by which populations of living things develop.mmalcome1 wants a revolution, i.e., the forcible overthrow of the capitalist order.Good luck mmalcome1. How many fighting divisions do we have?

[John Pozzi]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist has misquoted today's http://www.grb.net as shown above."Everyone owns 1 share in the GRB, shareholders' value the earth's wealth of natural resources 6 quadrillion (q) GRBe." Natural light, energy, air, water, land, food, shelter, climate, human ecology, law, biodiversity, and consciousness, are the earth's wealth of resources that are valued by GRB shareholders at 6 quadrillion GRB ecos to provides everyone lifelong economic freedom. Do the math.Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist refers to state jurisdiction. In the GRB system there are no states.GRB renders the state, fiat money, taxes, politics, tariffs, interest, corruption, inequality, poverty, hunger, environmental destruction, ignorance, refugees, artificial scarcity, compulsory labor, crime, racism, spying, propaganda, hacking, terrorism, armament, war, and borders obsolete? Yes.Steve, Research current information.Thank you,   

[ALB]

John Pozzi wrote:

mmalcome1 wants a revolution, i.e., the forcible overthrow of the capitalist order.

Oh dear. He expects us to plough through his crackpot stuff but can't be bothered to read what we say.For the record, our conception of revolution is the same as William Morris expressed in the opening lines of his pamphlet/talk How We Live and How We Might Live:

Quote:

The word Revolution, which we Socialists are so often forced to use, has a terrible sound in most people's ears, even when we have explained to them that it does not necessarily mean a change accompanied by riot and all kinds of violence, and cannot mean a change made mechanically and in the teeth of opinion by a group of men who have somehow managed to seize on the executive power for the moment. Even when we explain that we use the word revolution in its etymological sense, and mean by it a change in the basis of society, people are scared at the idea of such a vast change, and beg that you will speak of reform and not revolution. As, however, we Socialists do not at all mean by our word revolution what these worthy people mean by their word reform, I can't help thinking that it would be a mistake to use it, whatever projects we might conceal beneath its harmless envelope. So we will stick to our word, which means a change of the basis of society

[Anonymous]

John Pozzi wrote:

mmalcome1 wrote: you are wasting your time. mmalcome1 does not want any evolution to the information age, i.e., the process by which populations of living things develop.mmalcome1 wants a revolution, i.e., the forcible overthrow of the capitalist order.Good luck mmalcome1. How many fighting divisions do we have?

I have to repeat again. You are wasting your time because you are not reading what we have written, and you did not read what I wrote, where did it talk about armed struggle?  You are still influenced by the wrong conceptions of your societyWe have a fighting division known as the World Socialist Movement which has been fighting against the capitalist ideology and propagating socialism for more than 100 years. Our members did not support any type of wars and have not participated in any type of killings promoted by the capitalist class, and we do not support any type of wars, even more, we did not support the Vietcong, and we do not support any guerrillas groups. Do some reading before you start to writeI said,  the first revolution must take place in our minds, and this is the first thing that you must do, which is to remove the capitalist garbage from your mind and replace it with a socialist theory, and also I said that this is not a biological transformation,  it is a sociological and economical revolution.  Your proposal is a capitalist program nothing else, it is the same old idea  that has existed for more than 200 yearsWe might be living in the so-called information age, but most of the information propagated by the capitalist class is wrong and false., and most peoples are still politically ignorant,  if peoples were informed they would not be electing their own enemy, and they would be voting for socialism. It likes like the information age has not helped you.   We do not want to reform capitalism. Period

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

John Pozzi wrote:

mmalcome1 wants a revolution, i.e., the forcible overthrow of the capitalist order.

Oh dear. He expects us to plough through his crackpot stuff but can't be bothered to read what we say.For the record, our conception of revolution is the same as William Morris expressed in the opening lines of his pamphlet/talk How We Live and How We Might Live:

Quote:

The word Revolution, which we Socialists are so often forced to use, has a terrible sound in most people's ears, even when we have explained to them that it does not necessarily mean a change accompanied by riot and all kinds of violence, and cannot mean a change made mechanically and in the teeth of opinion by a group of men who have somehow managed to seize on the executive power for the moment. Even when we explain that we use the word revolution in its etymological sense, and mean by it a change in the basis of society, people are scared at the idea of such a vast change, and beg that you will speak of reform and not revolution. As, however, we Socialists do not at all mean by our word revolution what these worthy people mean by their word reform, I can't help thinking that it would be a mistake to use it, whatever projects we might conceal beneath its harmless envelope. So we will stick to our word, which means a change of the basis of society

 I agree with John Pozzi,  Malcome1 wants the forcible overthrow of the capitalist society as far as I have been able to understand his beligerence.  Actually, I'm unclear on you're stance ALB.  Mcolme1 by his efforts at representing all of WordSocialism and SPGB has convinced me that socialist are not reformers and that means overthrow is the only option as far as I understand Mcolme1. What is the practical observable and measurable real world difference I could use to test if something is reform or revolution?  What about the idea that a path to socialism requires the combination of both reform and revolution?   

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