Ever Wondered Why There’s So Much Debt?
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What is the party doing to counter these erroneous ideas which are becoming more and more widespread?
It is a very effective well made and very cheaply produced video and our attempts in comparison are very feeble. Articles, adding comments where possible, but they don’t have much impact since they don’t attract an audience and don’t get linked and passed around the web. Nor is it a matter of correcting just these misconceptions but a host of others which offer the appeal of simplistic solutions rather than the fundamental changes we demand. A themed series of a variety of topics should be planned and implemented but i agree the bankers myths is one of the most prevalent and most diversionary. I have said many times that we should outsource the technical details of making propaganda videoes for the internet , presenting a script and rough drawing-board but retaining editorial control of the content, leaving the production to the better qualified. Who pays the piper calls the tune. It needn’t be the big advertising agencies we resort to but many computer studies students have the capability so why not sponsor a few for their course projects. Lets invest some of our financial legacies into talent that benefits us directly. The next time we are in receipt of some substantial cash i suggest spending several thousands on web-based propaganda tools and individual members given the task of disseminating and spreading the links, hoping it then independently and organically grows, or go viral as it is described. Our present ad-hoc drip-drop response will ultimately have little success faced with what we have to concede are the very imaginative campaigns of several different, often informal and freuently contradictory groups. So, in reply, splash out the cash
There’s another whole thread on this lot’s mistaken ideas here:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/100-reserve-bankingIt’s being used to record news items which refute the basic view of groups like Positive Money about banks creating money to loan out of thin air. No doubt they’ll be using the current LIBOR fixing scandal to bash the banks, without realising that if banks really could just create money out of thin air why would they need to borrow money from each other? There wouldn’t be a need for LIBOR.”Positive Money” of course falls into the same category as Square Circle and Military Intelligence as a good example of a contradiction in terms.After Paul Dyson, the head of Positive Money, was seen lurking around Occupy St Pauls in January, we did write to him challenging him to debate the issue. He replied:
Quote:At the moment we’re tied up with other things but we could consider a debate at some point in the future, say April onwards.A reminder email to him will go off later today proposing a date in September.
alanjjohnstone wrote:The next time we are in receipt of some substantial cash i suggest spending several thousands on web-based propaganda tools and individual members given the task of disseminating and spreading the links, hoping it then independently and organically grows, or go viral as it is described.As a matter of fact we are about to receive a very substantial windfall and the opportunity to produce a professionally made video, if we’re unable to make it ourselves, is positively screaming at us. The EC, instead of looking to conclude its business each month as quickly as possible, as currently appears to be the case, should be allocating at least part of its time “doing politics”, to borrow an expression. You know, if The Zeitgeist Movement can do this sort of thing then why can’t we, only better?
Paul Dyson, of Positive Money, has just replied agreeing to a debate some time in September. Watch this space for details.
This is why I am flying down to London to attend the TZM/WSM day school on the 22nd. I think it’s fantastic this is happening. Perhaps the WSM should compare notes with Zeitgeist specifically around such topics as videos and other technical stuff. I think the party could learn from TZM (although I’m not talking about theory of course) whilst the Zeitgeisters could learn a vast galaxy from the WSM.
Lancaster branch weekend video workshop will hopefully come up with inspiration and be a spring-board, providing examples of what we can do ourselves. But we should not be opposed to contracting others to do what we cannot do or if they can do it better. For a lot of internet propaganda the means are not all that difficult technically but can be very effective. Flash animation can be quite basic – text – images/video clips – music soundtrack. I believe DIY programmes exist that can be purchased. Probably the only limitation is an artistic one of imagination. (and that counts me out since i lack both an artistic mind and an imagination). One caveat i have is the time involved. If i recall correctly Kids Stuff took hours to make but years to appear…okay i exaggerate, of course, but if each and every member insists upon his democratic right to cross the t and dot the i we will get bogged down in procedure. I know some comrades will say lets do one thing and do it right, rather than several projects, and maybe not all perfect . I say very few artists have only one colour on their palates, despite Picasso’s blue period.
There’ll be a debate with Positive Money UK at Conway Hall, London on Wednesday 5th September at 7.00pm.More details in due course…………..
Incidentally, in connection with my theoryandpractice.org.uk site and distributed through radicalbooks.co.uk I will soon be issuing a pamphlet debunking the ‘creationist’ school of banking theory, as well as some other things. Anyway self promotion over…An important thing to bear in mind in these debates is what is meant by ‘money’. The standard definition these days probably does include bank deposits, whether or not created through the issue of loans, so by definition banks do expand the money supply by issuing loans – but only because the definition of money makes no differentiation between credit and debit.The real question I guess is “what creates real wealth?” (or purchasing power) and if real wealth can be increased or destroyed by issuing or paying back loans.
This newly re-posted audio file will be of interest:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/audio/marxist-and-monetarist-theories-inflation
On my daily travels around the web i encounter several commentators who are frequently cited and quoted by liberals/progressives. One such figure is Joseph E. Stiglitz . But to offer ammunition to those who claim to be anti-capitalist and approving refer to Stiglitz here he is:”I’m not arguing that there should be no inequality,” Stiglitz said “There is a need for incentives, and any system of incentives will lead to some differences — perhaps large differences — in incomes…Talented American workers worked longer hours, took more risk and earned more income than their counterparts in Europe who diminished their work effort. Success produced new companies, like Google and Facebook, that provided valuable on-the-job training, which increased their workforces’ chances of success. Success put equity into the hands of investors more willing to bear the risks needed to produce innovation… We should also grow concerned when a backlash to inequality threatens to dampen the incentives for the risk-taking needed to produce innovation and employment growth.”It’s just “excessive” levels of those who don’t contribute to making the pie larger, only their slice of it, he is against.http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/books/review/inside-the-list.html?pagewanted=all
gnome wrote:There’ll be a debate with Positive Money UK at Conway Hall, London on Wednesday 5th September at 7.00pm.More details in due course…………..Title of the debate is now confirmed as “BANKING REFORM OR ABOLITION OF CAPITALISM?”Ben Dyson will represent “Positive Money UK”http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/how-banks-create-money/proof-that-banks-create-money/http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/event/debate-positive-money-uk-london
Speaking of debt :)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkWf9M3rUw&feature=shareDisregard the plug at the beginning, of course
Darren, another threat isn’t just the “crank” theories but supposed alternative economics such as I have come across on frequent occasions arguing for such things as “True-cost pricing: The prices that guide economic decisions in markets and government policies must be based on a full accounting of costs and benefits. When costs such as pollution – or benefits such as care for children and the elderly – are hidden from view, the result is implicit subsidies and taxes that deflect incentives away from the goal of long-run well-being. Costs that are hidden from view can grow over time, as in the case of global warming pollution; and benefits that are hidden from view can erode over time, as in the provision of unpaid labor for care of dependents. A full accounting of costs and benefits does not mean that non-monetary aspects of well-being such as liberty, community, and life expectancy must be translated into dollars and cents. It means that non-market values should not be ignored and thereby effectively valued at zero.”http://econ4.org/newsThey call themselves the new economy movement and appear to be establishing an academic presence on American campuses. Those type of “left-capitalists” who believe a reasoned (or reasonable capitalism) can be achieved may also merit a debunk in your up-coming pamphlet.
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