Donald Trump presidential campaign, 2016
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it's a far cry from how the US Presidential campaign was conductied in 1908! The empty rhetoric hasn't changed much though.https://archeophone.com/catalogue/debate-08/
In that election Eugene Debs was the candidate of the old Socialist Party of America. Pity there's no a recording of his rhetoric. For instance:
Quote:The Socialist party is the political expression of what is known as “the class struggle.” This struggle is an economic fact as old as history itself, but it is only within the past generation that it has become a thoroly [sic] conscious and well-organized political fact. As long as this struggle was confined to its economic aspect the ruling classes had nothing to fear, as, being in control of all the means and agencies of government, they were always able to use their power effectively to suppress uprisings either of chattel slaves, feudal serfs, or free-born and politically equal capitalist wageworkers. But now that the struggle has definitely entered the political field it assumes for the present ruling class a new and sinister aspect. With the whole power of the state — the army, the navy, the courts, the police — in possession of the working class by virtue of its victory at the polls, the death knell of capitalist private property and wage slavery is sounded.This does not mean, however, that the workers will wrest control of government from the capitalist class simply for the purpose of continuing the class struggle on a new plane, as has been the case in all previous political revolutions when one class has superseded another in the control of government. It does not mean that the workers and capitalists will merely change places, as many poorly informed persons undoubtedly still believe. It means the inauguration of an entirely new system of industry, in which the exploitation of man by man will have no place. It means the establishment of a new economic motive for production and distribution. Instead of profit being the ruling motive of industry, as at present, all production and distribution will be for use. As a consequence, the class struggle and economic class antagonisms as we now know them will entirely disappear.He got 420,852 votes, or 2.84%. The trouble is that most of these would have been votes to reform capitalism as the SPA also advocated reforms and not just socialism.Even so, speed the day when another US presidential candidate will utter the words above.
The blog has already scheduled a post of extracts from Debs speeches and writings for the US polling day with the title .."if debs was standing". I think folk know of my heretical affection for Debs. If he was standing in 2016, i think he would get my vote, despite the fact that his party as you say were full of "sewer socialists" (municipal socialism) such as Victor Berger who Debs would often defend. But strangely enough, Debs never held a senior official position within the SPA except being its candidate 5 times.
It does appear that capitalist democracy is experiencing a crisis of popular confidence. Trump, and also Saunders, and Corbyn and Farage in the UK ( and in Europe ; the Front National, podemos, 5star, etc etc) have all gained support and electoral success through appealing to a deep seated distrust in the political 'establishment' and disillusionment in the rule of the 'elite'.but what is important is that this 'establishment' is not capitalism and the 'elite' isn't the ruling class.none of these movements, parties or platforms challenge the rule of capitalism; all seek Utopias- through an ethnically purified state or expansion of state capitalism.Whether left or right all seek greater power for the organs of the capitalist state.
ALB wrote:In that election Eugene Debs was the candidate of the old Socialist Party of America. Pity there's no a recording of his rhetoric. For instance: Even so, speed the day when another US presidential candidate will utter the words above.this happened in this current campaignhttp://www.folkways.si.edu/bernard-sanders/eugene-v-debs-trade-unionist-socialist-revolutionary-1855-1926/oral-history-biography/album/smithsonian
Capitalist Pig wrote:I am from the us and I don't really appreciate the new cover for the spgb. What do you find so offensive about him other than the phrases taken out of context by the media? He wants to bring jobs back to the us, get fair and profitable trade deals, rebuild our infrastructure, and eliminate policies that cripple the economy. I feel like you guys are isolating yourselves from the rest of the world and its people by saying "everyone is evil but us". It is just really hard to call myself a communist and see the socialist standard demonize Donald Trump just because he wants to see America prosperious.America more prosperious? I'd settle for them having better standards of spelling.With regard to the cover, am I the only one who thinks Trump looks better on our cover than he does in real life. certainly looks more human and the hair is less preposterous.
The front cover depiction of Hilarity Clinton is scarcely flattering, CP Populists are … popular. They say things what people want to hear and propose things that people seek to see. I don't view Trump as very different from any other politician, except perhaps in a matter of degree of his rhetoric and even then it is a debatable difference. Trump's anti-immigration posture can be seen as little different from Clinton's anti-Russianism – both are equally nationalistic and full of patriotic sloganising. Both brought out the generals for their convention endorsements. We have had our own versions of Trumps in Europe…Farage in the UK and across Europe others such as Hungary's Orban and i could offer a long list of both left and right-wingers who scapegoat others for the real and genuine problems that people are suffering from. Trump can promise all he wants but it is simply not in his power to deliver. But we are world socialists. If Trump wishes to have America "prosperous" on the backs of non-Americans then we will indeed treat him as a demon. Donald Trump has laid out his policies that include a strong border, fair trade deals, and national soveriengty. The allegations of the democrats that trump is a russian agent is based on nothing and is a false flag. We do have a problem with illigel immigrents coming in in droves, Trump proposes the strengthening of our border so criminals won't be able to smuggle drugs into our country and come over to claim numerious benifets our veterens don't even receive. Clinton wants OPEN BORDERS. so basically anyone can come and go as they please which would destroy our economy and put alot of people in America out of the job. Trump isn't trying to scapegoat immigrents, illegal immigration is a huge problem in our country and we need to deal with it not ignore it. How is wanting fair trade deals evil?? How is wanting to bring business back to the U.S. and put people to work evil? Capitalism in inherently inhumane but Trump does actually care for the american people or else he would just be living his former live-style without being bombarded with personal attacks by the media daily. If you can lay out 3 policies trump has proposed that would hurt the working class I would love it hear it but don't go and say that he is a 'demon' because he is a capitalist. Engels was a capitalist but do you call him a devil?
America more prosperious? I'd settle for them having better standards of spelling.With regard to the cover, am I the only one who thinks Trump looks better on our cover than he does in real life. certainly looks more human and the hair is less preposterous.Comments like these are why I have distanced myself from this organization over the years.
What part of world socialist do you not understand, CP….You maybe an American nationalist but the World Socialist Movement members seek a prosperous world for 7 billion non-Americans, and not just for 300 million Americans. We don't happen to accept American exceptionalism and its manifest destiny.As for your claims on immigration, they have been repeatedly debunked over the years. But here is just one news-report one positive aspect of actually encouraging more immigration
Quote:The aging of the U.S. population poses major economic challenges: rising healthcare costs, more retirement spending and, crucially, fewer working-age Americans to help pay for it all. Already, economists believe, the graying of America helps explain the slow economic growth of the past decade-plus. The problem will only get worse as more baby boomers leave the workforce…You wouldn’t know it from this year’s overheated campaign rhetoric, but immigration is the only thing keeping the U.S. from facing a Japan-style demographic cliff.http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/immigrants-are-keeping-america-young-and-the-economy-growing/I doubt very much if it will change your entrenched viewIn Scotland, we have first-hand experience of Trump's business and political activities. He is no longer welcomed here despite his family connection and investment. http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-a-loser-on-familys-ancestral-scottish-island-10645351America does not have a problem with illegal immigrants. It has a problem from oligarchs, plutocrats and the corporate attack-dogs.
Our president just encouraged illegal immigrants to vote in our election. What part of illegal immigrant don't you understand? I have no problem with LEGAL immigration but allowing illegal immigrants to ammesty will only increase our debt, increase the time for the people who want to legally immigrate and allow those who smuggle narcatics and criminals to easily come across our borders. Yea in the dream communist society open borders would be a thing but its not a thing now because there would be economic and social consequences. I'm not in the least bit 'entrenched' in my views btw I am just realistic, open borders would not be a good thing for America and its people.
Once again you are repeating myths that are simply not true. but i seriously doubt you will accept factsContrary to the myth advanced by opponents of reform that illegal immigrants don’t contribute their fair share in taxes, and drain government benefits, the reality is that undocumented workers are helping to keep the social security trust fund in the black. They do this because they are paying into the system typically with false social security numbers, which means they will never collect benefits. Their money, often collected for many years, helps keep the system afloat and benefits flowing to aging baby boomers.This is not an insignificant amount of money. When payroll contributions cannot be credited to a verifiable number, they go into what’s called the “Earnings Suspense File.” A study that was done last year by the Center for American Progress (CAP), a liberal think tank, found that this file is estimated to have accumulated one trillion dollars worth of tax contributions.Not all of that “unmatched money” is from illegal workers, says Marshall Fitz with CAP, but he felt comfortable saying, “A significant portion of that suspense file has been funded through undocumented workers who currently will never see those benefits.”Here’s how the math works. Five percent of the U.S. work force is undocumented, which is some 8.1 million people. Thirty-eight percent of the 8.1 million pay social security taxes, which comes to roughly $12 billion a year, according to CAP estimates. Obama’s executive order would allow newly legalized workers to eventually collect benefits when they reach retirement age. But that’s a long way off for many of them, and any potential loss would be more than offset by the millions of young workers who will be brought into the system to pay taxes for three or four decades before they can collect benefits.“The biggest problem we have with social security is there are fewer Americans to pay into the system to support people who are currently retired or about to retire,” says Ornstein, “so the more people working and paying into the system is better for everybody.”Henry Aaron, an expert on social security at the Brookings Institution, says that looking ahead 75 years into the future, the legalization of some five million immigrants by executive order would be “like a boost in population—and a higher population is typically good for the (social security) trust fund. It’s equal to an increase in net migration, and when people enter the system, and that group is young and working, that’s positive.”This is because immigrants are the lifeblood of the U.S. economy. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said the bipartisan Senate bill passed last year with 68 votes would cut the deficit by $820 billion over 20 years.“Opponents of doing anything but deport or self-deport say these are people who are relying on government benefits, taking jobs from hardworking Americans,” says Ornstein. Immigrants without legal documentation are forced to work “off the books,” or “under the table. This is an arrangement that suits more employers than probably would care to admit it, because they avoid paying their fair share of taxes on those workers.Common sense is too often in short supply in the emotional debate over immigration reform and Obama’s executive action. But as America faces two great demographic shifts taking place simultaneously—the graying of America and the browning of America—the economic benefits of legalizing millions of people are clear for those directly affected and for the country as a whole.What is less clear is how workplaces accustomed to exploiting workers will adjust to newly empowered immigrants less afraid to stand up and be counted and claim what they’re entitled to.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/29/how-immigrants-will-save-social-security.html?via=newsletter&source=CSMorningTestSomeone, something has to be blamed for the shortcomings of how the system is standing up in the eyes of the population at large. Immigrants, and especially illegal immigrants, are a convenient fall guy – but that's because we're mostly kept ignorant of the real facts. Targeting undocumented immigrants may be convenient but it's the wrong minority. YOU, CP, need to keep our eye on the ball and target the small minority who seek to keep the rest of us in servitude with wage slavery – the capitalists.
Capitalist Pig wrote:America more prosperious? I'd settle for them having better standards of spelling.With regard to the cover, am I the only one who thinks Trump looks better on our cover than he does in real life. certainly looks more human and the hair is less preposterous.Comments like these are why I have distanced myself from this organization over the years.don't bang the door on way your way out, matey.
Capitalist Pig wrote:Donald Trump has laid out his policies that include a strong border, fair trade deals, and national soveriengty. The allegations of the democrats that trump is a russian agent is based on nothing and is a false flag. We do have a problem with illigel immigrents coming in in droves, Trump proposes the strengthening of our border so criminals won't be able to smuggle drugs into our country and come over to claim numerious benifets our veterens don't even receive. Clinton wants OPEN BORDERS. so basically anyone can come and go as they please which would destroy our economy and put alot of people in America out of the job. Trump isn't trying to scapegoat immigrents, illegal immigration is a huge problem in our country and we need to deal with it not ignore it. How is wanting fair trade deals evil?? How is wanting to bring business back to the U.S. and put people to work evil? Capitalism in inherently inhumane but Trump does actually care for the american people or else he would just be living his former live-style without being bombarded with personal attacks by the media daily. If you can lay out 3 policies trump has proposed that would hurt the working class I would love it hear it but don't go and say that he is a 'demon' because he is a capitalist. Engels was a capitalist but do you call him a devil?Have you noticed that only birds and workers migrate? A capitalist "takes up residence", but doesn't do any useful work.
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