Coronavirus
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“they should have locked all the vulnerable away and had measles parties for the under 60’s with no underlying medical conditions.”
Interesting that you should say that. A recent criticism of the flu vaccine is that it has been given to the old, children and the vulnerable. As you grow older your immune system is less effective in accepting vaccines, a recent development is that there is a view that the best way to protect the old is by vaccinating the young.
Another factor in all of this is that the inhuman way that capitalism has developed “care” of the elderly. By placing them all together in one institution, to ensure their offspring can get out into the workplace and make profit, all of those with poor immune systems are placed together in one place. When infection strikes it runs riot with the unfortunate inhabitants.
It is a similar way to how capitalism deasl with dementia, i.e. take the people with memory loss away from the one place they know and feel comfortable in, and place them with a whole group of similarly confused people, in unfamiliar circumstances and then wonder why their confusion gets worse.
I’m curious to know why this debate is taking place on whether lockdowns or not are effective counter-meaures to COVID-19.
So far, DaveB has not suggested any ulterior motive for them such as to increase the authoritarian police state which I believe the other lockdown sceptic Ozy has done (correct me if I am wrong, Dave and Ozy)
So Dave can you offer an explanation to why compulsory lockdowns and not voluntary self-isolation has been overwhelmingly adopted by governments and their advisors.
Is it really down to a scientific dispute between statisticians and epidemiologists and conflicting models?
If so then what actual importance is it to ourselves as socialists other than of academic interest? What is the political relevance?
My position is an easy one to understand.
I’ll go along with those who are better qualified and know more than myself. As with climate change, i accept the scientific consensus of the 97% and not the dissenting 3% scientists. (And as a “critical worker” it took me longer than others to accept the arguments.)
However, if lockdowns are doing more harm than good to fellow-workers that they are desperate enough to feel the need to rebel against confinement, then my sympathies are towards them – the poor, the job-less, the slum-dwellers, the migrants, who can’t work online from home if they even actually have one and don’t have the luxury of Netflix or a well-stocked freezer.
(But of course this could all be settled according to LBird by a simple thing as a democratic vote and the victor is the one who holds the scientific truth.)
An interesting article on Greece’s response and the success of lockdown
As been said by others here we simply don’t have the whole picture as yet.
More than 232,000 people may have been infected in the first wave of Covid-19 in mainland China, four times the official figures, according to a study by Hong Kong researchers…
China’s national health commission issued seven versions of a case definition for Covid-19 between 15 January and 3 March, and the study found these changes had a “substantial effect” on how many infections which were detected as cases. It estimated that each of the first four changes increased the proportion of cases detected and counted, by between 2.8 and 7.1 times.
“If the fifth version of the case definition had been applied throughout the outbreak with sufficient testing capacity, we estimated that by 20 February 2020, there would have been 232,000 … confirmed cases in China as opposed to the 55,508 confirmed cases reported,” the study said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52303739
New York City’s death count has spiked to more than 10,000 after it reported 3,778 people who likely had Covid-19, but died without being tested. The new figures, from the city’s Health Department, mark a 60% rise in deaths. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo on Wednesday said that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) had changed guidelines for how coronavirus deaths were to be recorded. He added that people who passed away outside of a hospital or nursing home may have been missed in previous counts.
Mark Levine, chair of the city’s Heath Council that even these adjusted numbers were likely an undercount.
As reported into today’s Times, Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, treasurer of the 1922 committee of backbench Tory MPs. is calling for a gradual, step-by-step easing of restrictions to begin within two to three weeks, so as to enable the economy to recover more easily, adding nonchalantly :
“That inevitably will mean that there will be, at each time, more Coronavirus cases. And we just have to accept that.”
Talk about profit before people.
I hope everyone here is still well and as safe as can be.
Hi John
Thanks for your comment, it seems all of the usual suspects are here, although L Bird has not been on in a little while (If you’re out there L Bird, let us know all is well)
Further to the discussion about numbers the updates have been made about deaths in “care” homes , this is from the BBC website:
Almost half of all people who have died with coronavirus in Europe were residents in care facilities, the World Health Organisation’s regional director for Europe has said.
Dr Hans Kluge told a press conference on Thursday there was a “deeply concerning picture” emerging regarding those in long-term care.
He said: “According to estimates from countries in the European region, up to half of those who have died from Covid-19 were resident in long-term care facilities. This is an unimaginable human tragedy.”
If that is the case in the UK (and the UK has a high number of “care” home residents per capita, so I know no reason why it shouldn’t) this would put the deaths in hospital and care homes up to around 27,000 since early March. To give some context the estimated annual total military and civilian deaths in the UK as a result of World War 2 was about 75,000. So in the seven weeks since the first death we have had about a third of the annual war deaths in World War Two. Comparable with the Flu, I think not.
“New York City’s death count has spiked to more than 10,000 after it reported 3,778 people who likely had Covid-19, but died without being tested.”
A week since that report the number of deaths have more than doubled, currently standing at 20,354.
I’ve obviously been talking conspiracy theory shite in light of these figures. Apologies to all. Forgive me.
Ozymandis –
You are forgiven.
Go in peace to love and serve the Party,
Blessed be the Party,
Blessed be the Party’s holy name
On a slightly different note. Isn’t it a bit ironic that all of these right wing American survivalists, who have been preparing for the armaggedon and stock piling their underground shelters for the final conflict with the deep state, are out on the streets freaking out because they had to stop in the house for a fortnight. Soft Shites.
Looks like they’ll be easy pickings when the lizard people arrive
From the BBC:
“Sweden has seen its confirmed cases of Covid-19 jump from 16,004 to 16,755. The rise was much larger than in recent days, during which Sweden’s Public Health Agency had been cautiously celebrating a flattening of cases.
The agency’s deputy state epidemiologist Anders Wallensten said the majority of the new cases were in Stockholm. Increased testing of healthcare workers could be a factor, he said, but scientists were looking into other potential reasons.“The agency also adjusted an earlier estimation that one-third of Stockholm residents will have been infected by the virus by 1 May, which was featured in a report released by the agency earlier this week and withdrawn after officials admitted errors in calculations.
“I don’t think this should be looked upon as something that is representative of Swedish statistics in general,” Wallensten told the BBC from the news conference via video link. “It was a mistake, I think many people understand that we are working hard these days… unfortunately this was not spotted before it went out.”
Ozymandis –
You are forgiven.
Go in peace to love and serve the Party,
Blessed be the Party,
Blessed be the Party’s holy name
You forgot to say: Long live our great leader Stalin and Enver Hoxha
Beatus vir socialisticus.
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