Communism at the cash register with equal hour coin?

[Anonymous]

Hello, I have a novel solution for reducing financial innequality that implements communism on a per transaction basis.  So in a capitalist marketplace, this allows you to charge someone as if everyone got paid according to their means and everyone charged according to their need.  It's a pricing scheme that adjusts the price higher for people who have more money.  So Effectively, the rich have an equal amount of buying power as the poor in this currency and rich or poor will still cost the same number of hours effort working to buy a car or pay for movie ticket or get your hair done.  It's basically a method for normalizing wages at the cash register.  

Anyway, I made a presentation on how it works and hope you decide to look it over and tell me what you think.

 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Gkj4lQb83gKHLXTQkw3DUIgWlglZ6Ksw6UYUl9CqSeE/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000

[moderator1]

Reminder: 3. Do not use the forums to send spam, advertisements, charitable appeals, solicitations, or other messages primarily intended to promote a particular product, service, campaign, website, organisation, venture, or event, unless it is relevant to the SPGB or its companion parties, without first obtaining permission from the moderators.

[rodmanlewis]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

Hello, I have a novel solution for reducing financial innequality that implements communism on a per transaction basis.  So in a capitalist marketplace, this allows you to charge someone as if everyone got paid according to their means and everyone charged according to their need.  It's a pricing scheme that adjusts the price higher for people who have more money.  So Effectively, the rich have an equal amount of buying power as the poor in this currency and rich or poor will still cost the same number of hours effort working to buy a car or pay for movie ticket or get your hair done.  It's basically a method for normalizing wages at the cash register.   

So, what's the point of being rich? Of course, the rich won't be working, so how do you measure their "contribution"? They have the state to look after their "needs" which is to accumulate more wealth, so who is going to implement these measures?And for those who are working or not, you will have to inspect their bank accounts, and how much cash they have under their mattresses.

[Anonymous]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

Hello, I have a novel solution for reducing financial innequality that implements communism on a per transaction basis.  So in a capitalist marketplace, this allows you to charge someone as if everyone got paid according to their means and everyone charged according to their need.  It's a pricing scheme that adjusts the price higher for people who have more money.  So Effectively, the rich have an equal amount of buying power as the poor in this currency and rich or poor will still cost the same number of hours effort working to buy a car or pay for movie ticket or get your hair done.  It's basically a method for normalizing wages at the cash register.  Anyway, I made a presentation on how it works and hope you decide to look it over and tell me what you think. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Gkj4lQb83gKHLXTQkw3DUIgWlglZ6Ksw6UYUl9CqSeE/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000

This article on individualized perfect price description might help explain things to some.  For those who don't know capitalist speak, individualized perfect price descrimination means something like socialism.  https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_developing-new-products-and-services/s05-02-first-degree-price-discriminat.html

[rodmanlewis]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

This article on individualized perfect price description might help explain things to some.  For those who don't know capitalist speak, individualized perfect price descrimination means something like socialism.  https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_developing-new-products-and-services/s05-02-first-degree-price-discriminat.html

A late member of the SPGB related that when he was working in a sardine-packing factory in the 1930s, the tins had different price labels on them depending on where they were being sold: It was something like 3d in the corner shops, and 1/6d in Harrods! I don't think it made the rich that much poorer…

[Anonymous]

rodmanlewis wrote:

So, what's the point of being rich? Of course, the rich won't be working, so how do you measure their "contribution"? They have the state to look after their "needs" which is to accumulate more wealth, so who is going to implement these measures?And for those who are working or not, you will have to inspect their bank accounts, and how much cash they have under their mattresses.

from page 14 of the slideshow I linked to you can find your answer. . .

Quote:

Some business are expected to be better served by =hOur.coin than others. Because =hOur.coin is completely voluntary, individual business owners can choose not to offer sales in =hOur.coin if it doesn’t make them additional profits.   Low profit margin / strong competition=hOur.coin is not very good for things like a disposable razor you can pick up on any street corner with low profit margin. If the marginal cost for production is close to the sale price in the market then =hOur.coin won’t make anyone much of a profit.High profit margin / week competitionMovie ticket sales and digital products are good canditates for =hOur.coin because the cost of one additional ticket or media download is negligible compared to the sale price.  Personalized service are great candidates for selling with =hOur.coin. 

So the point to being rich is even after market saturation, there's still going to be a lot of products and sellers who don't use =hour.coin because they don't find it profitable.  So it's not like this eliminates wealth innequality completely because it's mostly not going to be adopted voluntarily by some sellers for some products.  But being rich buys you less than it used to, so think of it as moderating influence on excessive wealth.  if people don't want to share their income information or provide an acceptable way of estimating the hourly value of their time then they don't get to buy things in =hOur.coin.  Some people can save a lot of money with =hOur.coin so they'll sign up for the account with their first use payment at the register and check the box that allows the government permission to share their tax records Gross yearly income.  Here's a quote from slide page 3 that tells how much a poor person could save by just checking a box to let the government share their yearly income total with us. . .

Quote:

Choose one price that’s fair to everyone.  to make the most profit the optimum seller will choose a price that’s equally fair to everyone.Low income buyerThe price for an epipen is 10=hOur.coin10hrs@$10/hr = $100.Medium income buyerThe price for an epipen is 10=hOur.coin10hrs@$50/hr = $500High income buyerThe price for an epipen is 10=hOur.coin10hrs@$500/hr = $5,000

and for extreme poverty we have an example from page 8 of the slide show presentation. 

Quote:

Meet Alberto. He’s very poor financially and he needs medicine.  1=hOur.coin is only $1 for him because he’s unemployed except for odd jobs so retailers don’t much want his =hOur.coin.  Many of the products he wants to buy have a floor price in dollars like an Epipen is $25+10=hOur.coin.  The marginal cost to epipen of producing one additional unit is $25, so epipen sells to him at production cost in dollars and makes a small $10 profit from =hOur.coin.

For rich people the price is the same as for Alberto.  The price for Epipen for anyone is the regular dollar price they charge now of $500. Or alternatively they can pay $25 + 10=hOur.coin .   For a very rich person like a CEO or someone who worked at goldman sachs, an hour of their time might be priced at $1,000/hr or higher and have to pay $10,025 for their epipen.  Bill gates for example would have to pay several million dollars for a single Epipen, but luckily for Bill, it will only take him 10 hours of work to earn the money he will be paying for his epipen.  Coincidentally, it will take Alberto 9 hours of looking for work and 1 hour of actual working for his neighbor at $10/hr in order for Alberto to earn the money it takes to pay for his epipen.  Bill and other CEO’s will be paying in regular $ and not using =hOur.coin very often if they can avoid it to save their money.  Epipen plans to continue offering sales at both the regular dollar price of $500 for this year, but in order to increase profits they will be increasing their regular dollar price to $1000 this january and still offering the “$25 + 10=hOur.coin” price for people who can’t afford the cash only dollar price. If profits keep increasing as they raise the dollar price for each epipen, then why wouldn’t epipen raise the dollar price every year to make more profit every year? Raising the price in =Hour.coin doesn’t increase profits and actually decreases profits by pricing people out of the market, so epipen has found the “sweet spot” profit maximizing solution for the current time is relatively stable at a price of  “manufacturing cost + 10=hOur.coin”.   NOTE: this is not actually epipens practice or policy and I'm using epipen as an example for explaining things only.  I have no connection with epipen and you could replace epipen with any other medicine for the example if you want. 

[Anonymous]

rodmanlewis wrote:

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

This article on individualized perfect price description might help explain things to some.  For those who don't know capitalist speak, individualized perfect price descrimination means something like socialism.  https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_developing-new-products-and-services/s05-02-first-degree-price-discriminat.html

A late member of the SPGB related that when he was working in a sardine-packing factory in the 1930s, the tins had different price labels on them depending on where they were being sold: It was something like 3d in the corner shops, and 1/6d in Harrods! I don't think it made the rich that much poorer…

The profits to be made and poverty to be reduced by a single sale of a single can of sardines, probably won't make anyone rich or poor just by itself no matter how it's priced.  But if you multiply that by a million cans of sardines and also by a million cans of tuna, and a million movie tickets, etc, etc, etc?I don't know why the pricing difference between the stores wa there and what it accomplished in that case.  Not all price differences work the same or benefit and penalize the same groups.  It sounds like if the difference was based on the type of store with corners stores charging more than the most likely explanation is the extra money is a convenience/inconvenience charge. Since it wasn't the rich that had to pay more it was only the people who shop at corner stores who pay more then this was likely intended to take advantage of the convenience of the corner store to make more profit.  This sardine example seems likely to have been intended to profit the corner shops who charged more and Harrods was trying to get more customers maybe and make up the profit with volume sales?  you could use =hOur.coin in addition to store pricing so a can of sardines might sell for "3d + 0.1=hOur.coin" at a corner shop and "1/6d + 0.05=hOur.coin" at the Harrods.  Then the stores would still have their pricing variation strategy, but in both cases the prices go up for the rich and lower for the poor at both Harrods and the corner stores.   So I guess it doesn't matter too much why they priced things differently between harrods and the corner store, because they could still price things differently with =hOur.coin and still charge more to rich people than to poor people at the same time.   I would mention though that sardine are poor choices and it's unlikely a seller would choose to offer sardines for sale using =hour.coin because sardines are easily resold and the seller would be ripped off too easily if the seller accepted =hOur.coins for sardine cans.  Sardines cans are most likely not on the "good tarket markets" list for using =hOur.coin.  I guess the seller wouild rationally offer sales in both for a while and see if =hOur.coin made more profit or if it got scamed by poor people buying cheep and reselling to rich people for a profit.  There's some practical ergonomic limits to how much scaming by poor people to resell to rich people can hurt the profit margin though, so in most cases scaming or reselling is not very profitable in terms of effort.  It takes $1 of most peoples time to resell a can of sardines because they have to move it and collect the money and hold it for a while and carry it or set up a personal reselling shop outside the corner store, etc.  So selling sardines might get resold and scammed some, but still be profitable even with the fraud for the seller to offer sales in =hOur.coin.  Also, the seller never drops their sell price below replacement costs willingly, so the customer is always paying some markup even if it's a percent of their income or a few minutes of their time.  So in the worst case that all the sardines get bought by a single poor person and resold, then the fradulent reseller is still not getting the wholesale price. 

[Anonymous]

We won't have coinage in metal or bits, nor money or credits or buyers and sellers, prices and incomes, markets regulated or otherwise, rich or poor, or wealth disparities in the post-capitalist, production for use, free access socialist society.It is a priceless society where commodity production (for sale) and economic calculation,  will cease to exist and give way to the production of utilities(for use) to calculaton in kind.

[Anonymous]

Matt wrote:

We won't have coinage in metal or bits, nor money or credits or buyers and sellers, prices and incomes, markets regulated or otherwise, rich or poor, or wealth disparities in the post-capitalist, production for use, free access socialist society.It is a priceless society where commodity production (for sale) and economic calculation,  will cease to exist and give way to the production of utilities(for use) to calculaton in kind.

Hi Matt, That sounds like a good goal to shoot for.  I suspect you're still using some form of money personally for the time being.   This is a form of money that I suspect might be performing the "calculation in kind" automatically for each transaction.  Can you tell me the math or a formulae for how you estimate the "calculation in kind"? Like what things are considered in the calculation?  You also mention that production of utilies will happen and be calculated in kind.  Here's how you calculate in kind the utilities such as electric or internet access or transportation and sell using =hOur.coin in a capitalist market.  It seems the like capitalist market makes one kind of calculation and the =hOur.coin makes another calculation on top of that to get a "third kind of calculation".  

---

Electric bill:

---

($45+ 0.145=hour.coin)/kilowatt hourTotal price = (depends on how much money you personally extracted from others per hour at your job)

---

Internet bill itemized:

---

connection fee of $2/month+500 Mbytes/month @ $5 + 1=hOur.coin/month+500 Mbytes extra over use charge @ $5 + 2=hOur.coinTotal price = (depends on how much money you personally extracted from others per hour at your job)

---

Gas bill is calculated in kind as—-1,456 Cubic foot of heating gas delivered at $.02/cubicFoot + 0.001=hOur.coin/cubicFoot+ Pipe and infrastructre maintenance and delivery fee of 1=hOur.coin/month.Total price = (depends on how much money you personally extracted from others per hour at your job) So for each of these utilities the price changes depending on how much money the purchaser is paid and extracts from the economy for an average working hour. For a rich person who extracts $1000/hr the bill for utilities will be very high above the production costs.  For a poor person who earns $10/hr the price will be much lower and for someone who makes $0/hr the price would be equal to the production cost of the electricity of $45/kilowatt hour.  One important thing to note is that suprisingly, the seller has a profit motive to price things in a way that we like.  The profit maximizing price charged by the vendor is generally a fixed dollar amount for the capital value of the purchased price + some number of your personal hours converted into money at your hourly wage for the seller profit above the fixed cost in dollars for replacing the item on the store shelf. So the seller isn't ordered to set the price fairly because the seller is financially motivated to set the price fairly because the fairest price makes the seller the most profit. Due to anti-dumping laws it's illegal in most places to sell items at below production costs and represents anti-competitive rule breaking that gets sanctioined by most national laws.  So this gets a poor person who makes zero dollars the production price and rich people pay more depending on how rich they are. So anyway, I think that's fairly clear math that I'm proposing.  What's the math that you propose for "calculation in kind"?  I looked up wikipedia on calculation in kind and it says "Socialists in favor of calculation in kind argued that, in a system of in-kind calculation, waste associated with the monetary system would be eliminated, and in particular objects would no longer be desired for functionally useless purposes like resale and speculation – they would only be desired for their use-value." -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculation_in_kind . And I wanted to point out that as mentioned on page 12 of the presentation slideshow it says. 

Quote:

B2C + C2C + C2B A business can offer sales in just dollars, or a mix of dollars and =hOur.coin.  Customers can choose to buy at same old dollar price as before, or they can choose to pay in =hOur.coin instead.

So what that quote means to the "calculation in kind" discussion is that B2B or speculating is not allowed in =hOur.coin.  it makes sense that this can't be used by business to sell to another business because the question would come up of how much money does a business earn in an hour and can that be treated for billing like people minutes?  So this =hOur.coin pricing strategy will have zero effect directly on business to business sales as far as I can see.  The wage normalizing price adjustment of =hOur.coin doesn't currently have a clear analog for business to business sales, but maybe you want to work on how that could be built or the calculations need to do make it work for B2B?  it seems like the =hOur.coin is functioning as some sort of proxy estimate provided by the consumer for how much "human use value" the product is going to be worth.  So for a use value that saves ae person 1 hour or is worth 1 hour of value to a person, then the charge is 1=hOur.coin because that's the price that on average makes the salesperson the most money.  If the salesperson sets the price higher than the use value, then they lose sales because people don't buy and if the salesperson sets the price lower than the utility value than the salesperson then they lose profit because they could have charged the full use value and still made the sell.  So in an seller profit optimized price list, WITH =hOur.coin the portion of the price charged by =hOur.coin is equivalent to the surplus value.It seems that to make the most profit, the corner store operating in a market and seekign to maximize profit will price products with a fixed dollar price for the capital cost to the corner store and add on a =hour.coin surcharge to capture the most suprlus value from the exchange.  So business still tries to capture all the surplus value, but now with =hOur.coin business can better capture the surplus value from rich people and poor people more fairly.  Without the =hOur.coin pricing the business can't discriminate price based on the wealth of the purchaser and can only extract the maximum surplus value from the median income buyer, while losing some of the surplus value to the rich who underpay for their utility value and while losing sales from the poor who can't pay the Ps. Matt, I'm not sure if I should respond to seriously to you anymore and I think you might just be here to repeat the same content and spam my discussion that I started.  I'll make you a kind of calculation in a deal.  If you don't post duplicate content in discussions I start, then I won't post anything at all in any discussion thread that you start?  How does that sound for a "Calculation in Kind" where no money is exchanged?  Does that seem a fair exchange of "use value" between the two of us?

[Anonymous]

This shit has nothing to do with socialism. It is just another spammer post

[moderator1]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

Hello, I have a novel solution for reducing financial innequality that implements communism on a per transaction basis.  So in a capitalist marketplace, this allows you to charge someone as if everyone got paid according to their means and everyone charged according to their need.  It's a pricing scheme that adjusts the price higher for people who have more money.  So Effectively, the rich have an equal amount of buying power as the poor in this currency and rich or poor will still cost the same number of hours effort working to buy a car or pay for movie ticket or get your hair done.  It's basically a method for normalizing wages at the cash register.  Anyway, I made a presentation on how it works and hope you decide to look it over and tell me what you think. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Gkj4lQb83gKHLXTQkw3DUIgWlglZ6Ksw6UYUl9CqSeE/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000

This article on individualized perfect price description might help explain things to some.  For those who don't know capitalist speak, individualized perfect price descrimination means something like socialism.  https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_developing-new-products-and-services/s05-02-first-degree-price-discriminat.html

1st warning: 3. Do not use the forums to send spam, advertisements, charitable appeals, solicitations, or other messages primarily intended to promote a particular product, service, campaign, website, organisation, venture, or event, unless it is relevant to the SPGB or its companion parties, without first obtaining permission from the moderators.

[moderator1]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

rodmanlewis wrote:

So, what's the point of being rich? Of course, the rich won't be working, so how do you measure their "contribution"? They have the state to look after their "needs" which is to accumulate more wealth, so who is going to implement these measures?And for those who are working or not, you will have to inspect their bank accounts, and how much cash they have under their mattresses.

from page 14 of the slideshow I linked to you can find your answer. . .

Quote:

Some business are expected to be better served by =hOur.coin than others. Because =hOur.coin is completely voluntary, individual business owners can choose not to offer sales in =hOur.coin if it doesn’t make them additional profits.   Low profit margin / strong competition=hOur.coin is not very good for things like a disposable razor you can pick up on any street corner with low profit margin. If the marginal cost for production is close to the sale price in the market then =hOur.coin won’t make anyone much of a profit.High profit margin / week competitionMovie ticket sales and digital products are good canditates for =hOur.coin because the cost of one additional ticket or media download is negligible compared to the sale price.  Personalized service are great candidates for selling with =hOur.coin. 

So the point to being rich is even after market saturation, there's still going to be a lot of products and sellers who don't use =hour.coin because they don't find it profitable.  So it's not like this eliminates wealth innequality completely because it's mostly not going to be adopted voluntarily by some sellers for some products.  But being rich buys you less than it used to, so think of it as moderating influence on excessive wealth.  if people don't want to share their income information or provide an acceptable way of estimating the hourly value of their time then they don't get to buy things in =hOur.coin.  Some people can save a lot of money with =hOur.coin so they'll sign up for the account with their first use payment at the register and check the box that allows the government permission to share their tax records Gross yearly income.  Here's a quote from slide page 3 that tells how much a poor person could save by just checking a box to let the government share their yearly income total with us. . .

Quote:

Choose one price that’s fair to everyone.  to make the most profit the optimum seller will choose a price that’s equally fair to everyone.Low income buyerThe price for an epipen is 10=hOur.coin10hrs@$10/hr = $100.Medium income buyerThe price for an epipen is 10=hOur.coin10hrs@$50/hr = $500High income buyerThe price for an epipen is 10=hOur.coin10hrs@$500/hr = $5,000

and for extreme poverty we have an example from page 8 of the slide show presentation. 

Quote:

Meet Alberto. He’s very poor financially and he needs medicine.  1=hOur.coin is only $1 for him because he’s unemployed except for odd jobs so retailers don’t much want his =hOur.coin.  Many of the products he wants to buy have a floor price in dollars like an Epipen is $25+10=hOur.coin.  The marginal cost to epipen of producing one additional unit is $25, so epipen sells to him at production cost in dollars and makes a small $10 profit from =hOur.coin.

For rich people the price is the same as for Alberto.  The price for Epipen for anyone is the regular dollar price they charge now of $500. Or alternatively they can pay $25 + 10=hOur.coin .   For a very rich person like a CEO or someone who worked at goldman sachs, an hour of their time might be priced at $1,000/hr or higher and have to pay $10,025 for their epipen.  Bill gates for example would have to pay several million dollars for a single Epipen, but luckily for Bill, it will only take him 10 hours of work to earn the money he will be paying for his epipen.  Coincidentally, it will take Alberto 9 hours of looking for work and 1 hour of actual working for his neighbor at $10/hr in order for Alberto to earn the money it takes to pay for his epipen.  Bill and other CEO’s will be paying in regular $ and not using =hOur.coin very often if they can avoid it to save their money.  Epipen plans to continue offering sales at both the regular dollar price of $500 for this year, but in order to increase profits they will be increasing their regular dollar price to $1000 this january and still offering the “$25 + 10=hOur.coin” price for people who can’t afford the cash only dollar price. If profits keep increasing as they raise the dollar price for each epipen, then why wouldn’t epipen raise the dollar price every year to make more profit every year? Raising the price in =Hour.coin doesn’t increase profits and actually decreases profits by pricing people out of the market, so epipen has found the “sweet spot” profit maximizing solution for the current time is relatively stable at a price of  “manufacturing cost + 10=hOur.coin”.   NOTE: this is not actually epipens practice or policy and I'm using epipen as an example for explaining things only.  I have no connection with epipen and you could replace epipen with any other medicine for the example if you want. 

2nd warning: 3. Do not use the forums to send spam, advertisements, charitable appeals, solicitations, or other messages primarily intended to promote a particular product, service, campaign, website, organisation, venture, or event, unless it is relevant to the SPGB or its companion parties, without first obtaining permission from the moderators.

[moderator1]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

Matt wrote:

We won't have coinage in metal or bits, nor money or credits or buyers and sellers, prices and incomes, markets regulated or otherwise, rich or poor, or wealth disparities in the post-capitalist, production for use, free access socialist society.It is a priceless society where commodity production (for sale) and economic calculation,  will cease to exist and give way to the production of utilities(for use) to calculaton in kind.

Hi Matt, That sounds like a good goal to shoot for.  I suspect you're still using some form of money personally for the time being.   This is a form of money that I suspect might be performing the "calculation in kind" automatically for each transaction.  Can you tell me the math or a formulae for how you estimate the "calculation in kind"? Like what things are considered in the calculation?  You also mention that production of utilies will happen and be calculated in kind.  Here's how you calculate in kind the utilities such as electric or internet access or transportation and sell using =hOur.coin in a capitalist market.  It seems the like capitalist market makes one kind of calculation and the =hOur.coin makes another calculation on top of that to get a "third kind of calculation".  

---

Electric bill:

---

($45+ 0.145=hour.coin)/kilowatt hourTotal price = (depends on how much money you personally extracted from others per hour at your job)

---

Internet bill itemized:

---

connection fee of $2/month+500 Mbytes/month @ $5 + 1=hOur.coin/month+500 Mbytes extra over use charge @ $5 + 2=hOur.coinTotal price = (depends on how much money you personally extracted from others per hour at your job)

---

Gas bill is calculated in kind as—-1,456 Cubic foot of heating gas delivered at $.02/cubicFoot + 0.001=hOur.coin/cubicFoot+ Pipe and infrastructre maintenance and delivery fee of 1=hOur.coin/month.Total price = (depends on how much money you personally extracted from others per hour at your job) So for each of these utilities the price changes depending on how much money the purchaser is paid and extracts from the economy for an average working hour. For a rich person who extracts $1000/hr the bill for utilities will be very high above the production costs.  For a poor person who earns $10/hr the price will be much lower and for someone who makes $0/hr the price would be equal to the production cost of the electricity of $45/kilowatt hour.  One important thing to note is that suprisingly, the seller has a profit motive to price things in a way that we like.  The profit maximizing price charged by the vendor is generally a fixed dollar amount for the capital value of the purchased price + some number of your personal hours converted into money at your hourly wage for the seller profit above the fixed cost in dollars for replacing the item on the store shelf. So the seller isn't ordered to set the price fairly because the seller is financially motivated to set the price fairly because the fairest price makes the seller the most profit. Due to anti-dumping laws it's illegal in most places to sell items at below production costs and represents anti-competitive rule breaking that gets sanctioined by most national laws.  So this gets a poor person who makes zero dollars the production price and rich people pay more depending on how rich they are. So anyway, I think that's fairly clear math that I'm proposing.  What's the math that you propose for "calculation in kind"?  I looked up wikipedia on calculation in kind and it says "Socialists in favor of calculation in kind argued that, in a system of in-kind calculation, waste associated with the monetary system would be eliminated, and in particular objects would no longer be desired for functionally useless purposes like resale and speculation – they would only be desired for their use-value." -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculation_in_kind . And I wanted to point out that as mentioned on page 12 of the presentation slideshow it says. 

Quote:

B2C + C2C + C2B A business can offer sales in just dollars, or a mix of dollars and =hOur.coin.  Customers can choose to buy at same old dollar price as before, or they can choose to pay in =hOur.coin instead.

So what that quote means to the "calculation in kind" discussion is that B2B or speculating is not allowed in =hOur.coin.  it makes sense that this can't be used by business to sell to another business because the question would come up of how much money does a business earn in an hour and can that be treated for billing like people minutes?  So this =hOur.coin pricing strategy will have zero effect directly on business to business sales as far as I can see.  The wage normalizing price adjustment of =hOur.coin doesn't currently have a clear analog for business to business sales, but maybe you want to work on how that could be built or the calculations need to do make it work for B2B?  it seems like the =hOur.coin is functioning as some sort of proxy estimate provided by the consumer for how much "human use value" the product is going to be worth.  So for a use value that saves ae person 1 hour or is worth 1 hour of value to a person, then the charge is 1=hOur.coin because that's the price that on average makes the salesperson the most money.  If the salesperson sets the price higher than the use value, then they lose sales because people don't buy and if the salesperson sets the price lower than the utility value than the salesperson then they lose profit because they could have charged the full use value and still made the sell.  So in an seller profit optimized price list, WITH =hOur.coin the portion of the price charged by =hOur.coin is equivalent to the surplus value.It seems that to make the most profit, the corner store operating in a market and seekign to maximize profit will price products with a fixed dollar price for the capital cost to the corner store and add on a =hour.coin surcharge to capture the most suprlus value from the exchange.  So business still tries to capture all the surplus value, but now with =hOur.coin business can better capture the surplus value from rich people and poor people more fairly.  Without the =hOur.coin pricing the business can't discriminate price based on the wealth of the purchaser and can only extract the maximum surplus value from the median income buyer, while losing some of the surplus value to the rich who underpay for their utility value and while losing sales from the poor who can't pay the Ps. Matt, I'm not sure if I should respond to seriously to you anymore and I think you might just be here to repeat the same content and spam my discussion that I started.  I'll make you a kind of calculation in a deal.  If you don't post duplicate content in discussions I start, then I won't post anything at all in any discussion thread that you start?  How does that sound for a "Calculation in Kind" where no money is exchanged?  Does that seem a fair exchange of "use value" between the two of us?

3rd and final warning: 3. Do not use the forums to send spam, advertisements, charitable appeals, solicitations, or other messages primarily intended to promote a particular product, service, campaign, website, organisation, venture, or event, unless it is relevant to the SPGB or its companion parties, without first obtaining permission from the moderators.This user is on a 3rd and final warning.  If this user breaches any of the rules within the next 30 days he'll be suspended immediately. 

[Anonymous]

moderator1 wrote:

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

Hello, I have a novel solution for reducing financial innequality that implements communism on a per transaction basis.  So in a capitalist marketplace, this allows you to charge someone as if everyone got paid according to their means and everyone charged according to their need.  It's a pricing scheme that adjusts the price higher for people who have more money.  So Effectively, the rich have an equal amount of buying power as the poor in this currency and rich or poor will still cost the same number of hours effort working to buy a car or pay for movie ticket or get your hair done.  It's basically a method for normalizing wages at the cash register.  Anyway, I made a presentation on how it works and hope you decide to look it over and tell me what you think. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Gkj4lQb83gKHLXTQkw3DUIgWlglZ6Ksw6UYUl9CqSeE/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000

This article on individualized perfect price description might help explain things to some.  For those who don't know capitalist speak, individualized perfect price descrimination means something like socialism.  https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_developing-new-products-and-services/s05-02-first-degree-price-discriminat.html

1st warning: 3. Do not use the forums to send spam, advertisements, charitable appeals, solicitations, or other messages primarily intended to promote a particular product, service, campaign, website, organisation, venture, or event, unless it is relevant to the SPGB or its companion parties, without first obtaining permission from the moderators.

 Participants: Steve-SanFranci… and MarcosI have received this message on my private box without my consent. I do not know who he is, and I do not care either. I am blocking him Steve-SanFranci…28/06/2017 – 9:25pm Newplease don't spam. You comment at http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/communism-cash-register-equal-hour-coin#new has nothing to do with socialism or with the topic thread and is a comment on your foolish opinion of what is and what is not spam.  if you want to you can create a topic of how you complaining because you're stupid and don't recognize socialism unless it comes with a party stamp on it then that's your problem you should keep to yourself. 

[Anonymous]

Dear moderator1,nothing I posted here is spam,advertisementscharitable appealssolicitations, orother messages primarily intended to promote a particular product, service, campaign,website, organisation, venture, or event.This is discussion about an economic and business theory and solution relevant to socialism and comunism and innequality and business and economics.  What I am talking about =hOur.coin is not yet a product and not yet a service and not yet a campaign and not yet a website and not yet and organization and not yet a venture and not yet an event.  It's only a concept and an idea.  You can not buy =hOur.coin or invest in it and it's not a service you can buy or even use yet.I believe you are misaplying the rules intentionally because and you may be a frequent commenter with a grudge against me. If you have a complaint or feel any of the comments I made in this thread are in your opinon prohibited you need to be more speceific about whether you think I'm  posting spam, or do you claim this is a charitable appeal? or do you claim this a particular product?  (hint, it's not a product yet)  Moderator1, please tell me how I can challenge your decisions on this matter and include a URL and clickable link in your reply for courtesy so I don't have to guess what you want me to do and what you mean like in your blanket generic warnings that are not very usefull or specefic and seem to be made in error of your judgement. Also, be a more professional moderator and include a reply link or follow up link in your warnings.  That's pretty basic customer service courtesy to include a reply link instead of prohibiting replies like you seem to do.  Just add it to your template one time and then everyone can benefit from not having to guess how to reply to you. You can PM me or reply in this discussion as you see fit.  you do not have my permission to delete or edit my posts without first disucssing it with me here or by PM.  If you decide to ban me, then at least include a link to somoene above you I can apeal to so I don't have to search for it wherever you hid it if that's your game.  I'm a generally peacefull and tolerant person who approves of mods, but you are giving me reason to wish the trolls and hackers on you and some of the people in the forum seem pretty mean spirited in general and are disapointing representatives of socialism, IMO. 

[Author]

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