Clifford Slapper on TS 3

[Brian]

}”>I am pleased to confirm that Clifford Slapper of the World Socialist Movement will be the guest speaker at TZM UK Chapter meeting on TS 3 tonight which is scheduled to kick off at 9.10pm. Clifford will be speaking on Direct Participatory Democracy. Questions welcome on this very important subject.

For a link to TS 3 go to TZM Global website.

 

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/teamspeak

 

 

 

 

[ALB]

I listened in to this. Clifford was good, emphasing the need to take political action to end the market-profits-money system before anything lasting can be done. It was  a bit disappointing that so many of the ZM people there appeared to be more into changing their individual life-style ("I am the change", said one) and local initiatives rather than propagating the need for their movement's declared aim of a world resource-based (as opposed to a money-based) economy.Much of the discussion was about "political action". Most of them, understandingly, rejected politics as irrelevant, which in its current form of it is. They didn't seem to realise that the schemes they favour (beyond individual life-style changes)  as a "transition" to their goal (which is not so different from ours) such as more renewable energy and even the monetary reform some of them favour depend on government decisions and that to implement them they wouid have to either lobby the government or win control of it. Actually, some did seem to take this point as, like in the debate with Federico Pistono, the M5S movement in Italy was cited as the sort of political action they might countenance. Basically, they haven't worked out how the "transition" from the present system to a moneyless world resource-based economy could take place. Or perhaps don't have a common position on this or don't see the need for one. Most seem to see this as gradual process while others are banking on an economic collapse they see as coming in the next few decades (one of them doubted that the present system would still be going in 35 years time).

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

Basically, they haven't worked out how the "transition" from the present system to a moneyless world resource-based economy could take place. Or perhaps don't have a common position on this or don't see the need for one. Most seem to see this as gradual process while others are banking on an economic collapse they see as coming in the next few decades (one of them doubted that the present system would still be going in 35 years time).

Unfortunately many of us can't afford to wait that long…  

[steve colborn]

You are totally correct Gnome! Many of us, meaning the 95% +  that make up the "working class", cannot afford to wait for 35 years. If we suddenly came into multi-millions of wealth, we could say, "fuck It", what is the chance of that? infinitesimal.Gradualism is the domain of those who have already lost, or had  no hope anyway. The planet will survive, even if the "human race"  became extinct! The idea's of the SPGB, is to preclude this eventuality from coming to fruition. To take action and to put forward idea's that, in actuality, make this an impossibility, in essence, more or less, impossible.For all of my time in The Socialist Party, I have fought against Gradualism. It is domain of the intellectually redundant. We have an answer, a society based on production for use, by and in the interests of, ALL MANKIND, not just for the benefit for the few. That the means exist for the establishment of such a society is, irrefutable. The KEY is, to get our fellow members of the, "working-class", to understand this and, moreover , work to implement this, in a class conscious, knowledgeable way.The Socialist Party case in a nutshell.Steve.

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