Capitalism’s animal holocaust continues.
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Thomas More – “Two members on the forum now making fun of capitalism’s animal holocaust on a thread”
TM, I don’t know what Chelmsford’s approach is to being a carnivore, my position on this issue has been made on this forum very clearly on this forum and I was not making a joke with my posting.
I have made it very clear on this forum that I am a carnivore, I do however always attempt to ensure that I use meat that has been ethically raised and that I also attempt to make sure that meat use is based on used on making full use of all elements of animal we use.
To that extent I make my own bacon from slaughterhouses and farmers who raise their animals appropriately, I similarly make my own sausages, black puddings, white puddings, haggis, faggots, etc. I also use a lot of free range mutton, meat which is often discarded when wool producing sheep are eventually slaughtered which is often discarded because “no one wants it any more”. I also use old chickens, known as broiling foul, from laying hens which are also sent off to be made for fertiliser, pet food, etc. although with a little thought and time can be used as food very easily (and very tasty they are too).
Having worked in rural communities for many years I am very aware of the wasteful and environmentally threatening practices modern farming methods and food fashions that are often forced onto farming folk. I am also aware that many of the supposed “simple solutions” put forward by the vegetarian lobby are also as destructive as those they criticise.
A very quick example is the regular criticism of beef production, whilst at the same time ignoring dairy production. The proportion of beef cattle and dairy cattle in the overall herd is about 5 to 1 in beef to dairy, however the average life span of a beef beast is about 18 months, whilst the life span of a dairy cow is usually about 20 years and can be over 30 years. So in effect milk production (and many vegetarians eat higher amounts of dairy than non vegetarians) creates far more environmental destruction that beef consumption. Similarly much of the land that is used for sheep production is used for the production of wool, rather than the production of meat, so meat consumption is often not the issue. Add to this the fact of the impact of arable farming on wildlife and the environment is widely overlooked. Large scale mono cultural production of grain and vegetables in large scale farms has led to the grubbing up of large areas of woodland and especially hedge rows has had a massive impact on bird life and other wild animals.
Perhaps the aspect of modern day farming and approaches to farming that is most threatening to human existence comes not from meat production but from arable farming. Insecticides are used massively across most arable farms and the fall in insect numbers is enormous. No insects, no other animals. Cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, etc. raised in open settings, produce enormous amounts of the humble fly. Flies are the major food source of literally thousands of animal species, they are the plankton of the world, yet modern arable farming methods are eliminating the fly across many parts of the countryside.
Another example of the “simple solution” approach was explained to me by a friend of mine who worked as a civil engineer in the water industry. In Newcastle the treatment works used to collect the treated sludge (minus the sweetcorn, tomato pips, peas and seagull’s wellies) from the sewage works in the area and it was transported to the Tyne and was placed on what was poetically named, the shit boats. The shit boat sailed off on most evenings to various points of the north sea coast and dropped the contents of their boat at various points around 30 miles off the coast. Some elements of the environmental lobby raised a huge stink (sic) about this practice and eventually the practice was stopped. The sludge is now burnt. When the practice stopped there was a huge crash in the prawn and shrimp fisheries across the North East coast. The fall in shrimp numbers had a huge impact n the slowly recovering fisheries across the North East and also affected the numbers of many non commercial species also.
Perhaps, TM, you do not eat dairy, do not wear wool or leather, do not eat crops that have been supported by manure produced by cows, do not eat fish, do not eat grain and vegetable products produced by large scale farming processes, do not drink beer, wine, whisky, etc (finings used to clear these products use isinglass produced by the swim bladders of fish or use egg whites) and maybe you only shit in the garden, wiping your arse only using dock leaves. If so I congratulate you, if not perhaps your comments are a case of the kettle calling the pot dirty arse.
So maybe instead of attempting to “out” me as a callous animal enemy, it might be more productive for you to look more closely in a more informed way at your own practices.
“Wisconsin’s wolves are being hunted down and slaughtered, with tactics including dynamiting wolf pups in their own dens. Meanwhile, Montana and Idaho have passed laws legalizing brutal “hunting” methods like snares and helicopter chases. Last year, Idaho called for the killing of 90% of its wolf population — only 150 wolves would remain.”
F.O.E.
TM Your assumption that you know what I was intending to do in my posting shows a degree of arrogance that does not marry in with your previous postings.
I was not being provocative, if you found it provocative then I’m sorry you found it that way.
I have a well known interest of promoting better use of meat and meat bi-products, as previously outlined.
Perhaps it is a bit provocative to a poster who uses the handle Thomas More, but perhaps you’re being a little bit holier than thou?
This is not a thread on vegetarianism or on food at all. It’s about the holocaust being perpetrated on wildlife by the capitalist system.
Chelmsford begins with “my modest contribution to the holocaust …”
Get your own threads on anti-vegetarianism and on recipes if that’s what you want. This is a thread on a very serious subject and your Christmas dinner ideas have nothing to do with it, and diminish it.
And I remember you before, diminishing my descriptions of horrendous animal suffering with some remark like, “Aw, the fluffy wuffie bunnies” etc. That was a diminishing remark aimed at hurting, and it’s no wonder I assume these ones are too … especially as they don’t belong here.
I’ve had years, both from socialists, anarchists and others, of remarks aimed at hurting the feelings of people of sensibility beyond their own species. I’ve had enough of it.The industrialised meat system is again found to be continuing health-risk adulteration of food with nitrites but is the answer to home-cure?
Yet another study adds to the evidence showing preservative additives can increase the risk of cancer.
“I’ve had years, both from socialists, anarchists and others, of remarks aimed at hurting the feelings of people of sensibility beyond their own species. I’ve had enough of it”
So going back to my second recent post, do you avoid drinking milk, wearing leather, drinking beer and wine, eating industrially produced crops, avoiding foods that have been supported by insecticides, etc.
If that honestly is the case, I genuinely and sincerely take my hat off to you.
If you don’t then, to my mind you claims of feelings of sensibility towards other animals, clearly don’t stretch to insects, wild birds, prawns, etc. are nothing but faux sentimentality, only to be referred to when you are not tucking into a cheese sandwich and quaffing a pint of ale.
As to having a long memory, I also remember the fake news stories that you posted from ultra Hindu nationalists, claiming to show Muslims torturing cows.
Faked photographs which originated from Pooja Shakun Pandey from the Hindu Mahasabha Party.
See link:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/14/asia/india-hindu-extremist-groups-intl-hnk-dst/index.htmlClaims that have led to tens and perhaps hundreds of deaths and which have been linked to the increased persecution of minority groups throughout India.
Are your sensibilities limited to non human species are do you care about the propagation
Hi Alan – industrial scale curing uses very high levels of nitrates. The higher levels of nitrates increase the curing speed of the curing process and increase profits.
Most bacon produced in the UK is wet cured, soaked in brine tanks for shorter periods than dry curing. The most common form of curing in mass produced bacon uses the injection of brine into the meat, which is then out through tumblers for a couple of hours which distributes the cure (and the low cost water) throughout the meat. It’s then frozen to be sliced, with the water and the nitrates within the meat. It can contain up to 30% water and can be mass produced in just over 2 hours.
This is why it tastes so salty and turns to mush when you cook it. It contains far, far higher levels of nitrates than traditionally cured pork.
Traditional British style sausages have very few preservatives than continental sausages. Most continental sausages have the meat cured whilst mincing, Toulouse sausage, Chorizo, etc. have that highly salty tast to them.
I generally use only a little salt, alongside traditional spices (pepper, mace, nutmeg, etc).
The high levels of nitrate in the industrial process increases shelf life at the expense of human life!
Again the nitrate story is far more complex than the way the papers present it. The amount of nitrate in some vegetables can be very high. Spinach, for example, may contain 500 to 1900 parts per million of sodium nitrate. Less than five percent of daily sodium nitrite intake comes from cured meats. Nearly 93 percent of sodium nitrite comes from leafy vegetables & tubers and our own saliva. Vegetables contain sodium nitrate, which is released as sodium nitrite when it comes into contact with saliva in the mouth.
This is not a thread on vegetarianism or on food at all. It’s about the holocaust being perpetrated on wildlife by the capitalist system.
Chelmsford begins with “my modest contribution to the holocaust …”
Get your own threads on anti-vegetarianism and on recipes if that’s what you want. This is a thread on a very serious subject and your Christmas dinner ideas have nothing to do with it, and diminish it.
And I remember you before, diminishing my descriptions of horrendous animal suffering with some remark like, “Aw, the fluffy wuffie bunnies” etc. That was a diminishing remark aimed at hurting, and it’s no wonder I assume these ones are too … especially as they don’t belong here.
I’ve had years, both from socialists, anarchists and others, of remarks aimed at hurting the feelings of people of sensibility beyond their own species. I’ve had enough of it.If to had a choice to vote for the abolition of meat eating or socialism which would you chose?
A bit loaded a question.
Let’s take it to the extreme
What would I vote for, the death of all my family and friends or socialism?
I won’t answer for TM but when socialism is fully going, I don’t foresee even reduced meat-eating being on the menu. It will go the way of crime and religion, disappearing in due course because of the changes in how people think and behave.
It won’t be an overnight transformation but like many other negative aspects of today’s society, if there is no need or necessity, it will become redundant.
I have posted my views on pet ownership on this thread and here is another link
“…Pet ownership’s more insidious injury is the hardening of our hearts for the sake of a selfish, possessive happiness. Rather than seeing other animals as autonomous beings with their own lives, desires and cultures, they are reduced to mere dolls. Living creatures become commodities that can be perfectly calibrated to one’s tastes – see the many “dog breed selectors” online. People crave the unconditional love pets offer, but such supplication requires mastery at the level of individual animals broken by “training”, control of a species’ genetic inheritance through inbreeding and the dominance of whole ecosystems to feed hundreds of millions of animals…”
“…The equivalent to 6% of the American cat and dog population (8 million animals) are abandoned at shelters every year – half of whom are then killed…”
“…Pets’ popularity has turned these humble animals into an economic and ecological force on a global scale. There are 900 million dogs and 700 million cats (both owned and feral) worldwide. Half of US households own an animal, while the number of pets in China has grown from virtually nil – dogs were once banned in Beijing – to 251 million. At $260bn, the global pet market is worth more than the solar and wind energy sectors combined…”
“…If US pets were a country, they would rank fifth globally in terms of meat consumption – greater than Germany…”
In a letter led by Harvard Law School’s Animal Law & Policy Clinic and the Wild Minds Lab at the University of St. Andrews School of Psychology and Neuroscience in the United Kingdom, 380 signatories urge senior National Institutes of Health officials to “review the protocols and justifications” related to the “funding of unethical experiments on macaque monkeys and other non-human primates taking place at Harvard Medical School.”
No such thing as hunmane slaughter houses
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