Cameron’s EU deal
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We are not reformists and we shouldn`t – neither us in the SPGB nor the rest of the working class – take sides in capitalist squabbles, which is what the EU debate is. However, don`t we have a tradition of supporting measures (i.e. strike action etc.) which benefit workers re: the standard of living etc?I`m ready to vote WORLD SOCIALISM on June 23rd, but I want to ask you here first: Isn`t being in the EU of benefit to workers in the sense of some freedom of movement, cross-border relationships, cosmopolitanism (which can only be good for spreading a global socialist consciousness etc.)If not, and if of no benefit whatsoever, then I shall go ahead and vote WORLD SOCIALISM.
Letter published in Friday's Richmond and Twickenham Times:
Quote:Big Business or Little England? That's the choice in the referendum the Tory Party has organised to try to settle its internal differences. So, to that extent, it is not the concern of the rest of us. The trouble is that, if things go wrong and there's an unexpected vote to Leave, we risk being collateral damage in the temporary economic and financial crisis that would follow. The nostalgic dreams and rosy future promised by the Leave campaign won't happen. On the other hand, leaving wouldn't be as dramatic a change as the Remain side is suggesting — it can't be as the British capitalist economy is so intertwined with that of the rest of the EU that it can't withdraw from it. So there'd be a deal with Britain ending up something like Norway. The rest of us won't notice the difference.I see that both sides are being criticised for exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims, but what do they expect? The protagonists on both sides are professional politicians used to telling lies and making false promises. They are not going to change their spots just because it's a referendum and not an ordinary election. All this is grist to our mill and publicity for our meeting the Sunday afternoon before the vote entitled THE EU REDERENDUM CAMPAIGN: LIES AND COUNTERLIES. Details here
Email received at Head Office:
Quote:Surely you should be encouraging your readers/voters to vote LEAVE if only for the sheer malicious pleasure of terminating the careers of Cameron and Osborne, suddenly and in disgrace.. Neither would survive an 'OUT' vote for more than a few days. If they win – and survive – they are going to be even more unbearable.He has been referred to this month's Socialist Standard especially the front cover.
There are more important things to do than making certain politicians squirm, however entertaining that exercise may be.
John Oswald wrote:Isn`t being in the EU of benefit to workers in the sense of some freedom of movement, cross-border relationships, cosmopolitanism (which can only be good for spreading a global socialist consciousness etc.)Yes. I think there is some real benefit in this. I will be voting "in" on those grounds only. Capitalism continues either way. But as socialism is not coming any time soon I think we should hold on to those reforms that are worth wanting, this is one of them.
https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/BetteroffIN.pdfThe TUC estimates we'd all lose £38 per week on wage (or rather, the average worker would).
Quote:Most institutions’ assessments of the long-run impact of Brexit are based on a broadly similar methodology, and come to similar conclusions. Most estimate the impact of Brexit on the level of GDP some years into the future (2030), from which an impact on household income is derived. This is the basis of the Treasury’s estimated impact on household incomes of £4,300. The same GDP estimates can be put on an annual basis and used to project the impact on average weekly earnings, set against a baseline case from the Office for Budgetary Responsibility’s long-term growth forecasts.there's an "an upper and lower bound of £10 on either side." Generally, economists are seeing wages rise: "£220 if the UK stays in the EU and £182 if we leave". As they acknowledge, these models are not uncontentious: especially the idea that wages relate to GDP, as we've seen the last few years, wage growth is lagging GDP's by some way (despite pitiful growth rates).So, actually, the TUC are saying that wages will not rise by £38 if we leave, possibly £28.
I know it`s largely irrelevant, but I welcome the cosmopolitanism of the town and I have enough of the middle-aged/elderly white British bigotry I encounter.
John Oswald wrote:I know it`s largely irrelevant, but I welcome the cosmopolitanism of the town and I have enough of the middle-aged/elderly white British bigotry I encounter.Yes I know what you mean . I live in West Lothian but love going in to Edinburgh when all the overseas visitors have arrived especially for the Festival.
Interesting, and perhaps revealing, speculation in the papers a couple of days ago. Because a Leave vote would be a vote simply to "leave" the EU and not do anything else (not even "regain control of our borders") and as Parliament has a large pro-EU majority, Parliament might decide to do just the minimum, i.e withdraw from the EU's political institution but remain in the single market on the same terms as Norway even if this means paying something to the EU and allowing the free movement of labour (as Norway does and has to). If this happens, it really will all have been a fuss about nothing.This, incidentally, is why a referendum is not necessarily the best way to make a decision. There are rarely only two choices.
http://www.squareonelaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/60065-KH-SQ1-Law-EU-Referendum-800x800px-HR.pdfVery interesting chart that shows how little changes across the different options.
I see Critisticuffs are organising a meeting in London on the subject a week Tuesday:https://critisticuffs.org/events/brexit/
Quote:Brexit – About the Illusion to Vote on British SovereigntyInstead of asking whether to vote Brexit or Bremain, we would like to discuss what hardships — real or imagined — are identified in the debate about the EU and how and why these problems are seen to be forced upon Britain by the EU. In this meeting, we want to challenge sovereignty, which is claimed by both camps as a central pillar for their argument. Sovereignty is at its core is the might of a capitalist state to deal with its subjects as it pleases. Neither Brexit nor Bremain will change that.Pity I can't go as it clashes with our Eve of Referendum meeting in West London branch. Perhaps someone else can.
robbo203 wrote:It is beginning to look like the Leave campaign will winhttp://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/eu-referendum-panicked-remain-camp-plans-to-take-out-boris-as-polls-swing-in-brexit-campaigns-favour/ar-AAgTXrC?ocid=spartandhpI can't believe it but it seems to be true. Beating the anti-foreigner drum seems to be paying off. A bit disturbing. The bigots and xenophobes who seem to be swinging the vote will be disappointed, though. Even in the event of a Leave vote there will still be immigration (as British capitalism needs more workers if it is to keep growing), only it would be "controlled". This would add a new category of "illegal" immigrants too, from Eastern Europe (in fact from anywhere in the EU) to join those from Asia and Africa. The section of the police and border agency staff dealing with this will have their workload doubled (at least) as will the profits of the people smugglers.
And a British exit will leave workers in this country without EU protection against GM and pesticides in food and air, and even more firmly in the grip of the US and the US`s current militarism against Russia.
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