Brighton Green

[ALB]

Here's SPEW's local branch's official statement opposing the referendum:http://brightonhovesocialistparty.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/oppose-green-partys-cuts-budget.htmlI wouldn't have thought that the alternative policy they propose is any more realistic or likely to defeat the cuts than what the Greens are proposing.They do, however, seem to be right on one point when they say that recalcitrant councillors can no longer be surcharged:

Quote:

[In the 1980s]… 47 [Liverpool] Labour councillors were surcharged and banned from office. The draconian laws which allowed this to happen no longer apply. The worst which Brighton Councillors defying Pickles’s cuts today would face is being forced to face a new election at which they could defend their strategy …

See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surcharge_%28sanction%29I'm not sure they are right that recalcitrant councillors can no longer be banned from office for up to 5 years. And the central government retains the right to appoint "intervention commissioners" to run failing councils.In any event, we need to be up-to-date with the current law and no longer say (as we have been doing) that any councillors doing what TUSC propose would be surcharged. .

[Young Master Smeet]

I don't understand that stance: come what may, the spending has to come from some taxes somewhere.  Although council tax is not the most progressive tax, it shouldn't be hard to assemble a propertyless majority to push it up.  As ALB says, when accompanied by sound industrial action it could work.  Especially as part of the government strategy I to impose cuts through councils, while maintaining politically popular spending nationally to protect their own position.

[Young Master Smeet]

This is a critique from a hardened Labourist eprspective:http://notesbrokensociety.wordpress.com/2014/01/26/no-confidence-an-epitaph-for-green-politics-in-brighton-and-hove/

Quote:

And finally, the Green Party’s internal structures – or lack of them – are symptomatic of a failure to move beyond the politics of personal indulgence.  As I’ve blogged before, those who wield power and wealth are organised and united by networks that are often largely informal and massively pervasive.  To take on that power – and effect real change – you need organisation and discipline.  When you’re dealing with an entrenched establishment, one that is rapidly moving beyond even paying lip-service to democracy, they’re all you’ve got.  Anything else is basically fancy dress outside foie-gras restaurants; picturesque, liable to produce a warm and fuzzy feeling inside, and utterly incapable of shifting the balance of power.  Greens seem incapable of submitting to collective rules and discipline – they resent structure. And, internally, that lack of structure means that power relations inside the party mirror rather than challenge those outside.  It is rumoured that this is the root cause for the mediation proposed last summer.  Most extraordinary of all, a Green councillor who sought to enrol the help of the Labour leader in an attempt to oust her own Group Convenor is hailed in some Green corners as a hero.  There is at the heart of all this, as I and others have written before, a basic culture of Thatcherite individualism: a reluctance to understand that politics is, at its heart, a collective enterprise.

We need to look at, and learn from this experience.  Should we ever get a chance to be a force in local government, we'll need answers to these problems.  the failure seemss to be that whilst the Greens in their mind rejected the power structures of local government, in practice they were in thrall to them, hence why their councillors started to oppose their own 'administration'….

[alanjjohnstone]

I would be more impressed by the critique if it was not from a Labour Party member and exhibited the subsequent hypocrisy and outright delusion about his own party's performance. …"while forced to make cuts every bit as agonising as those in Brighton and Hove, [Labour councils] made real progress where they can in improving the lives of their citizens. "…suuuuuuuuure they have…..  "Put simply, it’s a council’s job to set a budget.  That’s what councillors are elected for.  " Were the Greens not deprived of this right by rate capping and setting about reclaiming it?  "..a failure to move beyond gesture politics"… "failure to oppose austerity and speak for the disadvantaged is particularly damning" – and Labour's record is ??? He does hit the spot on the Green's money crankism, i admit  I don't think any future socialist administation would be so dismissive of referenda as the blogger, who i think feels that the profession of politician is undermined by permitting decisions making to be taken way.  "Telling your electors they’re the problem has never been a productive way of doing things." which of course Callaghan and Kinnock and Blair never ever did' I could go on but i think many SPGBers have enough experience in the political real world of trade union activity to know that a judgement made and taken especially an unpopular has to be justified to ones peers and those members do in fact understand the intricacies of compromise and yes sometimes concessions but equally able to take a longer view on the presentation of their interests by their elected spokespersons. Perhaps we have more to learn but not from a Labour Party. Oxford's IWCA might offer a bit more insight into the problems…particularly the day to day problems of engaging in full time council political work. We have more to learn from their mistakes and strengths than either the Greens or Labour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Working_Class_Association

[ALB]

I agree with Alan that this is hypocrisy coming from a Labourite even though I can easily believe anything the Green Party tried would be a shambles. Glad to see, though, that the Greens are having trouble pushing through the 20mph limit. I've been arguing against the local LibDem councillors in my ward who want to impose it everywhere, including on the nearby main A road. It's crazy on a main road. Anybody ever tried driving a modern car at 20mph for any length of time?

[Young Master Smeet]

Although partisan, I think he is right on the question of the power of local networks or privillege, and the need for discipline in office (although I agree we would go to referendums much more vigorously, although 'Town Hall' meetings of the US type might be more our bag, since that would give greater input to active groups who can turn out regularly and nullifies some of the media power of local wealthy types.  I'd assume we'd allow 'Open voting' at our branch meetings, or something, for mandating our council delegates…

[ALB]

We've more or less worked out what a minority of local councillors would do, but you're talking about the situation where there's a socialist majority in a local council before there's a sufficient overall majority in the rest of the country to win political power. Presumably, we wouldn't agree to administer a council as a minority administration as the Greens in Brighton have done. But would we agree to administer the council even if we have a majority? Another option would be allow the minority of pro-capitalist councillors to form a minority administration.But do we have to say anything more today than that whatever is decided will be decided democratically by the socialist movement in the light of the precise circumstances? Which implies, as you say, that a democratic decision once made has to be abided by by those who might not have voted for it.

[ALB]

Latest news from Brighton parish. Local councillor quotes Shakespeare and calls for a Labour-Tory-Green administration that will carry through the cuts:http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2014/01/30/greens-lose-no-confidence-vote-but-stay-in-office/27065

[ALB]

Here's what happened (or rather what didn't) in the end:http://www.heart.co.uk/sussex/news/local/brighton-hove-no-council-tax-referendum/

[ALB]

Apparently the matter of a referendum on the budget is back on the agenda again:http://brightonandhoveindependent.co.uk/green-party-says-cuts-calls-jason-kitcat-make-way/

[alanjjohnstone]

Since issue of the election debate with the Greens and the fact that they now out-poll the Libdems, i have noticed a rise in new coverage but not for the good. For sure policies should be critiqued but is that the reason?The usual nuanced headlines, the biased emphasis, the soundbite quotes …all these well known journalistic practices i see being used now to disparage the Greens. The Independent is an example…Headline "We would evict queen from buckingham palace and allocate her a council house say greens "…and in the text of the article this sob-story…

Quote:

This would mean, under the Greens’ suggestions, that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Prince George and the unborn baby would also be served an eviction notice from Kensington Palace and would have to shell out for private rent, buy their own house or join the chronically over-subscribed social housing register.

…oh lordy lord ….cathy come home crocodile tears.  And the article ends with this Green Party "threat"…

Quote:

the party suggested that the state could have powers to seize assets from the wealthy….if you haven’t declared something on your wealth tax, you don't own it.

I know it is not for us to defend rivals but the media , and thats just one example i have seen, i could cite more loaded one-sided articles…are now revealing their true allegiences. I expect the dirty tricks brigade will be out in full force if the Greens do be classed as a plausible vote-catcher to the detriment of of the mainstream and make sure no "respectable middle class" gets their vote…just those sandal-wearing tree-hugging veggies…

[ALB]

tDon't forget that they are doing the same thing to UKIP too, also perceived by the dominant section of the ruling class as a threat to their interests.

[alanjjohnstone]

Very true…the BBC UK section online headline is "Defector brands UKIP vanity project for Farage"I never ever read a headline saying "Tories are career vehicle for Cameron"…or …"Miliband Brothers use Labour for Sibling Rivalry"My imaginattion runs riot when i think how they will treat ourselves when we get the attention of Russel Brand and even save our deposit in an election.I did read a fairly presentable bio of their health spokesperson …head-leading with the statement she has no health industry experience at all…without a passing remark qualification that very rare for any government minister of any party to actually have any experience of his remit.She points out the appalling lack of party policy adherence to manifesto by Farage so could be cited in support of the defector's charges …She actually came out quite good in the article.http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/ukips-official-health-spokesperson-honestly-i-have-no-experience-in-health-whatsoever-9999487.html

[Darren redstar]

Their scottish Mep was in the TV the other day, made some not incorrect criticisms of the SNP and scottish nationalism in general.  The SNP spokeswoman was incandescent with rage.  Basically a win win.

[alanjjohnstone]

As i previously said, there is a nastycampaign now…Greens support terrorism if you read the headline of the Guardianhttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/25/terrorist-organisation-membership-no-crime-say-greensNo balance by explaining that the government financed and supplied the terrorist FSA (and indirectly ISIS)

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