Atheist banned from criticising the Islamic faith

[Dave B]

It would appear that some of the early Christians had some restrictive dietary practices eg  THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS from 132AD   Neither shalt thou eat," says he "the eagle, nor the hawk, nor the kite, nor the raven." "Thou shalt not join thyself," he means, "to such men as know not how to procure food for themselves by labour and sweat, but seize on that of others in their iniquity, and although wearing an aspect of simplicity, are on the watch to plunder others." So these birds, while they sit idle, inquire how they may devour the flesh of others, proving themselves pests [to all] by their wickedness. "And thou shalt not eat," he says, "the lamprey, or the…………. And on the David Cameron theme; Nor weasels on account of their notorious habit of practicing oral sex!  , he has rightly detested the weasel. For he means, "Thou shalt not be like to those whom we hear of as committing wickedness with the mouth, on account of their uncleanness; nor shall thou be joined to those impure women who commit iniquity with the mouth. For this animal conceives by the mouth."  (The weasel thing is dropped from some available translations but is widely discussed elsewhere.- I have the full extended translation but no link) Other  communist stuff also appears in this document eg; 8 Thou shalt share all things with thy neighbour and shall not say that they are thy own property; for if you are sharers in that which is incorruptible, how much more in that which is corruptible? Thou shalt not be forward to speak, for the mouth is a snare of death. So far as thou canst, thou shalt keep thy soul pure.  It is a very old and well provenanced document and widely cited in pre 4th century material. There is actually a hard 4th century copy ( 325-360) as part of the dated codex Sinaticus   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus I am sure some off us will scoff at our early David Attenborough ‘Barnabas’ but that kind of thing was quite common amongst the educated and intellectual Greeks at the time. Although I am only assuming that weasels don’t perform Fellatio although bats do apparently; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_sex  That was a hazardous even wiki google search; I am sure the NSA has recorded it.

[Dave B]

The extended eating weasels and oral sex translation, I found it!; http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-roberts.html

[alanjjohnstone]

One of her latest talks at Goldsmiths Universityhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1ZiZdz5nao&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

[alanjjohnstone]

Just to comment that this meeting is an example of how not to conduct a meeting. The chair mostly stood around doing nothing and looking gormless and did nothing to bring the meeting to order. Once more it shows that our formalism in the way we organise meetings is part of our strength and we don't let meetings degenerate into a general melee where discussion and debate is lost. The disruption was actually fairly minor and could have been easily handled by a decent chair imposing proper rules but was permitted to grow out of control at several points during the proceeding.I have suggested a few times that we invite Maram Namazie to address ourselves and i am sure whoever is in the chair will perform much more effectively than in this video even in the event of any attempted sabotage.( i'm not so sure that the topic of this meeting would be one suitable for a socialist audience but i am sure if requested she can tailor it appropriately) 

[SocialistPunk]

It would be a good idea to invite such controversial personalities to give talks or engage in debate. It could be a positive move to demonstrate how the SPGB does things. I suggest HO is not used in such situations and a neutral venue found, just in case protestors decide to kick off.

[rodshaw]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Man killed for supposedly eating beefhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34398433Less to do with vegetarianism but more to do with Hindutva – right-wing Hindu nationalismhttp://www.countercurrents.org/cc300915.htm

Quote:

It is ironic that India is the largest exporter of beef in the world! According to data released by U.S. Department of Agriculture India exported 2.4 million tonnes of beef and veal in FY2015, compared to 2 million tonnes by Brazil and 1.5 million by Australia. India accounts for 23.5 per cent of global beef exports. This is up from a 20.8 per cent share last year.

As a good little Catholic boy, I was banned from eating meat on a Friday. Otherwise I'd go to hell. Unless I confessed it, of course, and said a few prayers.

[alanjjohnstone]

Not directly a carbon-copy of our own defence if we were ever accused of being anti-religion but something no doubt that could be cited .

Quote:

the judge hearing the case, said it was “not the task of the criminal law to censor offensive utterances”. He added: “The courts need to be very careful not to criticise speech which, however contemptible, is no more than offensive… Accordingly, I find Pastor McConnell not guilty of both charges.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/pastor-who-said-islam-was-doctrine-spawned-in-hell-is-cleared-by-court

Quote:

An Islamic academic spoke in support of McConnell Muhammad al-Hussaini, a senior research fellow in Islamic studies at the Westminster Institute, said: “Against the flaming backdrop of torched Christian churches, bloody executions and massacres of faith minorities in the Middle East and elsewhere, it is … a matter of utmost concern that, in this country, we discharge our common duty steadfastly to defend the freedom of citizens to discuss, debate and critique religious ideas and beliefs – restricting only speech which incites to physical violence against others. Moreover, in a free and democratic society we enter into severe peril when we start to confuse what we perhaps ought or ought not to say, with what in law we are allowed to, or not allowed to say.”

Quote:

The National Secular Society said the verdict was a “welcome reassertion of the fundamental right to freedom of expression”. Campaigns manager Stephen Evans said the society strongly disagreed with the tone and content of McConnell’s comments but added: “At a time when freedom of speech is being curtailed and put at risk in any number of ways, this is a much needed statement from the judge that free speech will be defended and that Islam is not off-limits.”

[ALB]

That was obviously the right decision despite who said it, in fact perhaps even because of who said it. It means we can say nasty things about his religion too without being prosecuted (and they about us, of course).The BBC has reported this comment:

Quote:

Boyd Sleator of Atheist Northern Ireland said: "His (Mr McConnell's) comments were offensive but we are allowed to be offensive and I would never want to see anybody prosecuted for being offensive. His comments were idiotic, his comments were silly," he said.

Good to know that there are some atheists in Northern Ireland (cue for the joke: but are you a Protestant Atheist or a Catholic Atheist?)

[alanjjohnstone]

Those values our political leaders are defending and supporting by supplying weapons and diplomat support.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-sentence-man-to-10-years-in-prison-and-2000-lashes-for-expressing-his-atheism-on-a6900056.html 10 years in prison and 2,000 lashes and a fine of £4,000 for expressing his atheism in hundreds of social media posts. The 28-year-old man admitted to being an atheist and refused to repent, saying that what he wrote reflected his own beliefs and that he had the right to express them. 600 tweets denying the existence of God, ridiculing the Quranic verses, accusing all prophets of lies and saying their teaching fuelled hostilities.The report did not name the man.  In 2014 the late Saudi King Abdullah, introduced a series of new laws, Article 1 of the new provisions defined terrorism as "calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based".

[alanjjohnstone]

Another example of suppression of free thought.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/richard-dawkins-islam-muslims-islamophobic-row-twitter-tweets-atheist-kpfa-us-university-of-a7854751.html

[rodmanlewis]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Another example of suppression of free thought.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/richard-dawkins-islam-muslims-islamophobic-row-twitter-tweets-atheist-kpfa-us-university-of-a7854751.html

I suspect Dawkins will get more publicity out of the ban than by turning up to give his lecture. That's the sort of publicity the SPGB could do with! Perhaps it's better to be banned than ignored.

[Sympo]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Another example of suppression of free thought.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/richard-dawkins-islam-muslims-islamophobic-row-twitter-tweets-atheist-kpfa-us-university-of-a7854751.html

How is a radio station changing their mind about an interview "supression of free thought"?Off topic, Dawkins has said some stupid stuff about Muslims and Islam ("all Muslims are obliged to personally denounce Al Qaeda", "not many Muslims has won Nobel Prizes lol", "I salute Geert Wilders"). Not that he hasn't written good stuff about Islam.

[Desi1987]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Man killed for supposedly eating beefhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34398433Less to do with vegetarianism but more to do with Hindutva – right-wing Hindu nationalismhttp://www.countercurrents.org/cc300915.htm

Quote:

It is ironic that India is the largest exporter of beef in the world! According to data released by U.S. Department of Agriculture India exported 2.4 million tonnes of beef and veal in FY2015, compared to 2 million tonnes by Brazil and 1.5 million by Australia. India accounts for 23.5 per cent of global beef exports. This is up from a 20.8 per cent share last year.

 Cow Vigilante (as these terrorists are described here in India) kill not just Muslims and Christians but also Dalits. It is awful and very heart aching. Recently, they killed a nine year old girl.  When the news first made headlines, you know what they did? The authorities sent the meat to investigative lab to see if the meat was beef or not. As if, his killing was justified on grounds of beef consumption. The meat anyway turned out to be lamb. 

[ALB]

Things are starting to move:https://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/largest-gathering-of-ex-muslims-in-history/

[alanjjohnstone]

I once suggested that we invite Maryam Namazie of the Worker Communist Party of Iran to give a talk at HO. i still think it would be a good idea.A sign of solidarity with workers/socialists who have rejected religion and Islam and an opportunity for some much-needed publicity for ourselves.

[Author]

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