Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitic

[J Surman]

Here's another good one from Jonathan Cook;https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-05-24/naomi-wolf-and-anti-semitisms-mystifcation/Trying to paste a sentence – unsuccessfully – which basically draws attention to a New Statesman article saying that the articulation of the socialist idea of the 1%/ class division is anti-semitic!!

[alanjjohnstone]

Here is the link to the NS articlehttps://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/03/combat-left-anti-semitism-corbynism-must-change-way-it-sees-world

Quote:

it is only Jews who are suspected of secretly controlling the world.

He obviously not met Orangemen who will tell you it is the Jesuit Order that run the world and i heard this stated quite clearly and very often in Edinburgh at the Mound in my youth But we ourselves have endeavoured to point out that it is not the financiers and banksters that control the world but the root cause is the extraction of surplus value (albeit a portion of that goes to pay the interest of banks and rent of land-owners) but  we implicate the complicity of the industrialist as a parasite as well, and deny it his capital is constructive and integral to production. On re-reading the article i think it score some important point that Cook may well not fully understand how sectionalising capital is anti-Marxist.

Quote:

The roots of such “personalised critiques” of capitalism can be traced back to vulgar understandings of Marx’s so-called “labour theory of value”

I think Darren Redstar also pointed out on another thread one of the NS articles claims 

Quote:

The inordinate focus on the crimes of Israel within the British left – far outweighing the attention given to the chemical slaughter currently inflicted by Bashar al-Assad for example

Darren suggests we gave the Russians a free get-out-of-jail card by not allotting blame to them as much as we do the US/UKOther than that i think Cook does a good job exposing double-standards

[alanjjohnstone]

An interesting bio of former PM of Israel Barakhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/25/ehud-barak-on-the-crisis-in-israel-netanyahu-has-to-resign

Quote:

Barak is open about how working on this memoir (with Ned Temko), forced a level of introspection he had not previously engaged in, how it made him see, in “a very alive, vivid and sometimes painful way certain discrepancies between the ideal and its implementation. For example, the communist ideal of everyone gives whatever he can and gets whatever he needs.” Human nature, he now thinks, doesn’t really work like that. There was a specific incident when some Yemeni Jews, airlifted into Israel, came to work on the kibbutz. It turned out they were only hired hands and not given an equal share in the produce. Barak, then about 11, was picking carrots alongside them when he looked up and saw one of the men supervising their work, “like a kibbutznik turned plantation owner”. So some were more equal than others? “Yah, yah,” he says now, “and we were. We were more equal than they.”

[ALB]

A good article on "Zionism and anti-semitism" from the January 2007 Socialist Standard:http://socialiststandardmyspace.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/zionism-and-anti-semitism-2007.html

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

A good article on "Zionism and anti-semitism" from the January 2007 Socialist Standard:http://socialiststandardmyspace.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/zionism-and-anti-semitism-2007.html

in Argentina they had difficulties because they opposed the state like the Catholics Protestants and the leftists. It want a religious situation.  The people living in Argentina holds a nationality known as Argentinian   The jews did not suffer more than anybody else. In Argentina the Zionists exploded a building to blame Iran 

[Anonymous]

In many countries in Latin America the Jews live in more peace and harmony than in Israel and the Middle East   During WW2 cuba was going to receive thousand of Jews from the USA and the USA changed the situation and dictator Trujillo was the only one who wanted them.  The USA did not want refugees they were going to be placed in ghettos with the blacks and the Latinos 

[Anonymous]

In many countries in Latin America the Jews live in more peace and harmony than in Israel and the Middle East   During WW2 cuba was going to receive thousand of Jews from the Europe  and the USA changed the situation and dictator Trujillo was the only one who wanted them.  The USA did not want refugees they were going to be placed in ghettos with the blacks and the Latinos   The Americans were anti Semitic like the Germans nazis 

[alanjjohnstone]

I read this 

Quote:

Conservative prime minister John Howard, in office at the time of the report's publication, dismissed judge Sir Ronald Wilson's call for a formal apology to be issued, rejected the idea that Aborigines had been the victims of genocide and complained of an "Aboriginal guilt industry", an attitude still shared by some, typically in rural parts.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/national-sorry-day-australia-aborigines-stolen-generation-healing-reconciliation-a8368486.htmlIf the words Jew and Holocaust were substituted, then he would be making a criminal statement

[alanjjohnstone]

Another "displaced person" Jew set to seek refuge and become Israeli under the "law of return"http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44282099

[ALB]

This statement is not bad, despite its origin:http://www.ihrc.org.uk/publications/briefings/11860-what-antisemitism-is-and-what-it-is-not/

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

This statement is not bad, despite its origin:http://www.ihrc.org.uk/publications/briefings/11860-what-antisemitism-is-and-what-it-is-not/

It is a very good article, but Jewish is a religious concept, it is not a racial or ethnic conception, and they have not been persecuted because they are Jews, atheists have been persecuted too, all peoples from the different colour of their skin and religion background have been persecuted. Some  Africans also claim that they are Israelite and Jews, and they have been persecuted for many years, and they claim that Israel is located in North-East Africa and that the Middle East is part of AfricaKarl Marx was the only person who gave to the Hebrews ( Israelite, or Jews )  the best advice on the Jewish Question. How can you live in peace and happiness in a place surrounded by walls and barbed wires, and hated by all the peoples around you? 

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Here is the link to the NS articlehttps://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/03/combat-left-anti-semitism-corbynism-must-change-way-it-sees-world

Quote:

it is only Jews who are suspected of secretly controlling the world.

He obviously not met Orangemen who will tell you it is the Jesuit Order that run the world and i heard this stated quite clearly and very often in Edinburgh at the Mound in my youth But we ourselves have endeavoured to point out that it is not the financiers and banksters that control the world but the root cause is the extraction of surplus value (albeit a portion of that goes to pay the interest of banks and rent of land-owners) but  we implicate the complicity of the industrialist as a parasite as well, and deny it his capital is constructive and integral to production. On re-reading the article i think it score some important point that Cook may well not fully understand how sectionalising capital is anti-Marxist.

Quote:

The roots of such “personalised critiques” of capitalism can be traced back to vulgar understandings of Marx’s so-called “labour theory of value”

I think Darren Redstar also pointed out on another thread one of the NS articles claims 

Quote:

The inordinate focus on the crimes of Israel within the British left – far outweighing the attention given to the chemical slaughter currently inflicted by Bashar al-Assad for example

Darren suggests we gave the Russians a free get-out-of-jail card by not allotting blame to them as much as we do the US/UKOther than that i think Cook does a good job exposing double-standards

Well, I met many Jesuits who did not have a penny in their pockets, and were sleeping placing a mattress on the floor, wearing old clothings,  and they were simple peoples,  and I met many descendants of Jews who did not own any factories or banks, but have to get up early in the morning to work like anybody else, and sometimes they had difficulties to pay their rent, and their kids attended public schools.All these so-called conspirative theories never mention that capitalism is the real cause of our problems, even more, Bill Gates by himself is not our problem either, and he comes from a Jew family and he is an atheist.Pretty soon they are going to say ( or they are already saying )  that Pope Francis who is an Argentinian is part of the conspiracy to control the whole world because he is a Jesuit, and  he was introduced by the Illuminati in the Vatican, or the Freemason ( P2 ) My father was a freemason and he wasn't able to control the world.Some conspiracists have said that the Pople is the black devil because sometimes he wears a black cassock,( soutane )  but most Jesuits wear a white cassock in tropical areas,  and the Salesians, La Salle Brothers, secular,  and Dominico wear a black cassock. whoever, follow them will always be disoriented. Malcolm X was taught by one of this jail friend that the black colour was always associated with criminality, conspiracy, hates, ugliness,  and the devil. and white colour was purity and goodness. In Europe black fabric was cheaper than white fabric made from cottonWhat about saying that the expropriation of the Vatican by the English Protestants and the British bourgeoisie produced one of the biggest original accumulation of capital?  The famous sociologist Max Weber said that Protestantism is the ideology of the rising British bourgeoisie

[Anonymous]

Wh controls the world, the Illuminati, or the market? https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2007/no-1237-september-2007/who-controls-world-illuminati-or-marketWhy do some people think the world is run by a shadowy group called the Illuminati? Who were they?Capitalism is a system where the means of production are owned by a minority class and are used to turn out goods for sale with a view to profit. As a result market forces come into operation. These ultimately determine what is produced, how it is produced and where it is produced. As they used to say of God: Man proposes, God disposes. Under capitalism, Man proposes, the Market disposes.

[alanjjohnstone]

 

Quote:

but Jewish is a religious concept, it is not a racial or ethnic conception,

Under the British legal system,  Jewish people are legally classed as a race just as people of the Sikh faith are also defined as such, Marcos, in the UK anti-discrimination legislation.I don't know about other countries which use religion as a description of race. 

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

 

Quote:

but Jewish is a religious concept, it is not a racial or ethnic conception,

Under the British legal system,  Jewish people are legally classed as a race just as people of the Sikh faith are also defined as such, Marcos, in the UK anti-discrimination legislation.I don't know about other countries which use religion as a description of race. 

By the same token, a Leninist is called a Marxist. Isn't our duty to clarify what is wrong ? Race is a social construction, races do not exist and they are being used by the rulers to keep human beings divided. Karl Kautsky explained that very clearlyhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1914/jewsrace/index.htm. Are the Jews a race ?   Karl kautsky

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