Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitic
December 2024 › Forums › General discussion › Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitic
- This topic has 838 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 3 months, 2 weeks ago by james19.
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December 1, 2023 at 8:30 pm #248825Young Master SmeetModerator
@james19 – could you describe the content of the things you link to, just to establish relevance and to give people confidence as to what they’re clicking into?
December 2, 2023 at 7:49 am #248830Lizzie45BlockedIsrael Reopens the Gaza Slaughterhouse
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israel-reopens-the-gaza-slaughterhouse
December 2, 2023 at 12:42 pm #248832MooParticipantRe: Pro-Palestine or Anti-War (SS Dec. 2023, article)
A two state solution (Western politicians’ favourite saying) wouldn’t work, because of all the Jewish towns & cities in the West Bank.
According to the Left, ‘From the river to the sea,’ implies a secular, Palestinian state. While this aim is more realistic (in the short term) than a world socialist revolution, it would only solve one of capitalism’s million problems (that of Palestinian apartheid).
December 5, 2023 at 4:35 pm #248897MooParticipantHere’s a great article on how attitudes to Western colonialism & Israel have altered in popular culture, during the post-war period.
https://arena.org.au/israeli-colonialism-diversity-of-nazi-victims/
December 6, 2023 at 10:18 am #248918robbo203ParticipantZionism is a vile racist and nationalist political ideology that many Jewish folk themselves rightly oppose.
Yet astonishingly:
“The US House of Representatives has passed a resolution that explicitly labels anti-Zionism as antisemitism, after warnings from senior Jewish members of Congress and opponents of the measure who fear that it dangerously conflates criticism of Israel with anti-Jewish attacks amid Israel’s siege of Gaza”
We truly live in Orwellian times…..
If anything is going to encourage and strengthen racist anti-semitic ideas it is stupid senseless measures like this. People, appalled by what is being done in Gaza at the hands of the murderous Netanyahu regime, are simply going to say to themselves “Well I guess that makes me an anti-Semite then”. They are not going to forsake their feeling of revulsion over what is happening.
These idiot US representatives who voted for this measure don’t seem to realise that they are only helping to make anti-semitic ideas respectable
- This reply was modified 1 year ago by robbo203.
December 8, 2023 at 10:40 am #248949Young Master SmeetModeratorThis is a useful article: “However it is becoming clear that Israeli military intelligence had collected specific information on how Hamas could invade. Additionally, they had evidence of what assets and techniques Hamas were likely to use, and what Israeli facilities and possessions would be targeted. From, observing rehearsals, they also had information about the level of violence Hamas terrorists were willing to inflict.”
But: “The assessment about Hamas appears to have been dismissed for three key reasons.
“First, a belief that Hamas did not have the capabilities to carry out the attack, nor the intention to do so because it would fall outside of their historic pattern of behaviour.
“Second, these beliefs about Hamas were not thoroughly challenged within Israeli intelligence nor through sharing the assessment with international partners who might have had useful intelligence on this.
Third, Israeli defences, be they deeply buried sensors, walls, or automatically defended sections of the border, were considered to be too strong for Hamas.”
This has fed conspiracy theories that Israel let the attack happen, I think the author of this article is probably closer, that groupthink and over-estimation of their own defences (plus the policy driven need to take troops to the West Bank) are to blame.
The added coincidence of the Nova festival (which added to the overall chaos of the situation) probably aggravated the plan.
But, this also tells us something, even in practical terms, when someone says “what else should Israel do?” well, maybe simply improving it’s intelligence and assessment programme would be a good start, certainly better than destroying all the homes in Gaza.
December 8, 2023 at 10:50 pm #248959Lizzie45BlockedThe Evil Israel Does is the Evil Israel Gets
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/the-evil-israel-does-is-the-evil
December 9, 2023 at 8:34 am #248965ALBKeymasterAnd the many more corresponding failures to change minds!
And, with posts with such links, you are not trying to change minds to get people to support the dissolution of the state of Israel? And succeeding?
December 9, 2023 at 8:37 am #248966ALBKeymasterSo, as was to be expected, the US state protected its poodle, or rather out of control pit bull, Israel, at the UN, flying in the face not only of what most people think but of what most other capitalist states do too. So the killings and destruction and misery and starvation continue in Gaza.
Commenting on the US vote, the Russian representative told the Security Council
“we cannot and must not” leave innocent civilians to the mercy of a “geopolitical game”.
His state knows all about that of course, but he hit the nail on the head. The US supports Israel for “geopolitical” reasons. The “game” is about retaining control of the oilfields at the northern end of the Persian Gulf and the trade route out of it to which Iran is a threat.
They have put on a show of asking Israel not to kill or starve so many people or destroy so many buildings in Gaza but not out of any concern for the people there. Their concern is what Nutty-yahoo and his bloodthirsty and vengeful cabinet and generals are doing is undermining Israel’s standing in the area and so its effectiveness as a counterweight to Iran.
As the Russian said, it about geopolitics (of oil). I was going to say “all” about that but there is clearly also an element of revenge and retribution on the part of Israel.
December 9, 2023 at 10:05 am #248968Lizzie45BlockedAnd, with posts with such links, you are not trying to change minds to get people to support the dissolution of the state of Israel? And succeeding?
You’re right, I’m not trying to change minds but simply playing a small part, along with others, in counteracting MSM propaganda and misinformation.
However, the dissolution of the state of Israel may well be ‘on the cards’; the establishment of your dream world most certainly isn’t.
December 9, 2023 at 12:43 pm #248975james19ParticipantBeen posting links to party articles on X Twitter.
Saw this….Chief rabbi of Israel David Lau inscribes a message of hate onto an artillery shell to be fired into Gaza’s densely populated neighborhoods:
“For the uplifting of Israel's might and the revenge of his servants spilled blood. In prayer for the success of the protectors of our… pic.twitter.com/DYy0nAazEI
— Dan Cohen (@dancohen3000) December 7, 2023
December 11, 2023 at 10:58 pm #249018Lizzie45BlockedIS HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH COVERING UP FOR ISRAEL’S GENOCIDE IN GAZA?
https://normanfinkelstein.substack.com/p/is-human-rights-watch-covering-up
December 12, 2023 at 10:46 am #249024DJPParticipantHowever, the dissolution of the state of Israel may well be ‘on the cards’; the establishment of your dream world most certainly isn’t.
If you think of revolutions as being like a whodunnit; for a socialist revolution the working class has both the means (they have the numerical numbers to win the battle of democracy and they are the people that already conduct production) and motive (for workers capitalist production is experienced as a form of domination – non-domination is a near-universal good).
Who do you see as the group agent that would have both the means and motive for wanting to dissolve the Israeli state?
December 12, 2023 at 12:55 pm #249027Lizzie45BlockedWho do you see as the group agent that would have both the means and motive for wanting to dissolve the Israeli state?
The dynamics leading to and compounding state failure are many and varied, including civil war, ethnic violence or genocide, and predatory government and bureaucratic behaviour. State failure comes in degrees and is often a function of both the collapse of state institutions and societal collapse.
The depths to which the Israeli state is descending is further illustrated by the report below.
December 12, 2023 at 1:06 pm #249028DJPParticipantThe depths to which the Israeli state is descending is further illustrated by the report below.
But the fact that the Israeli state can do these things is an indicator of its strength, not of its weakness or imminent collapse, don’t you think?
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