Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitic
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This news is from The Washington Post
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600,000 people flee Gaza before expected invasion, IDF saysSecretary of State Antony Blinken will return to Israel on Monday as the country prepares to launch an invasion into Hamas-controlled Gaza by air, land and sea, State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said Sunday. Hundreds of thousands of people in northern Gaza are fleeing in buses, in cars and on foot, crowding onto narrow roads leading south after Israel’s evacuation warning. Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces, said Sunday that about 600,000 people had evacuated south and that others should follow. The Israeli military said it is preparing a “wide range” of offensive plans “for the next stages of the war, with an emphasis on significant ground operations,” though it has not provided a concrete indication of when the assault would start.
Not much different from what was common to the statements from the ICC, Třídní Válka, and CWO, but for reference sake, from the hispanophone group Barbaria:
‘Against Israeli and Palestinian Nationalism’:
Mod Notice:
I think we’re in danger of straying off the discussion of this thread, I think we can consider the brothers/sisters issue closed, or else move it to another thread.
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For us, proletarians, there is no side to choose, we have no homeland, no nation to defend! On either side of the border, we are class brothers and sisters! Neither Israel, nor Palestine!
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It has been corrected. I wrote to the section in Spain and I informed them about the translation problem, in Spanish it means the same: brothers and sister, but in English, French and German is not the sameIt’s difficult to believe anything about this conflict. Were there a number of babies beheaded by Hamas or is this like the First World War propaganda about Germans bayoneting kids? That´s powerful stuff and of course, any decent human being is going to be sickened and repulsed but we have to be wary about accepting anything that comes from the MSM
In relation to the baby beheading incident, I’ve come across which strongly suggests it was made up and spread by Chinese whispers
From the same source there is also this
Sometimes people misspell hypocrisy as hypocracy but that’s not bad as a new word meaning rule by hypocrites.
“Neither one State nor two States! No ‘State’ will end the slaughter of our Class!”
“Neither one State nor two States! No ‘State’ will end the slaughter of our Class!”https://www.international-communist-party.org/English/TheCPart/TCP_055.htm#Gaza
War in Gaza
All parties of the Israeli and Palestinian bourgeoisie direct their proletarians to the slaughter of a war for the defense of their profits and the survival of the rotten regime of capitalAgainst the imperialist warfare, for the revolutionary class warfare
In the 75 years since 1948 – when the Jewish state was born and pan-Arab nationalism suffered a crucial defeat in the Middle East, losing perhaps its last appointment with history – the Palestinian population has suffered deportations, massacres, terror and persecution to no end.
Contributing to this national oppression imposed by the State of Israel were the other states in the region, which exploited the various Palestinian armed organizations for their own power interests, but which, beyond hypocritical proclamations in favor of the “Palestinian cause,” did not spare Palestinian refugees persecution and massacres.
In Jordan in September 1970, joint Jordanian and Syrian military forces quelled an uprising resulting in several thousand deaths among Palestinian refugees. In Lebanon in August 1976, Phalangists, with Syrian complicity, killed thousands of Palestinians of all ages in Tel al-Zaatar camp. In 1982, also in Lebanon, phalangists, with the complicity of the occupying Israeli army, massacred thousands of Palestinians in the Sabra neighborhood and the adjoining Shatila refugee camp on the outskirts of Beirut.
No one cares about the “Palestinian cause”, no one is interested in the destiny of the Palestinian proletariat. Instead, today all governments care about war, which is necessary for all bourgeoisies. But for every war, an issue, a justification, is needed.
And their answer — step up the trade union struggle!
“we communists must tell proletarians that the rejection of war starts for proletarians with the intensification of the trade union struggle for wages and for a decrease in working hours.
The bourgeoisie will not be able to wage its war unless it can convince with its lying propaganda broad layers of the working class. We must counter this propaganda not only by responding with our truths to the lies of the ruling class. We must respond by directing the workers’ struggle to the material needs of the proletariat, a practical experience in which the lies and fallacious arguments of the bourgeoisie and their servants in the workers’ ranks are of little value.”As if the idea that political consciousness (other than Labourism) will emerge from the day-to-day struggle over wages and working conditions hadn’t been repeatedly shown to be wrong.
ps. I hesitate to mention it but they also talk about “class brothers”.
We are able to see that within all these political groups, the Socialist Party is the only one who has a correct marxist and socialist stand, they will always limp from one leg. Some will support the workers union struggle and other will reject the workers union struggles
I am afraid that the CWO might be right (if for the wrong reason) that a more generalised war is on the cards. The 7 October massacre by Hamas could be a Sarajevo moment for the Middle East.
The US has not moved two aircraft carriers to the Eastern Mediterranean to deal with Hamas. It is as a threat to Iran to try to deter it getting involved but Israel and Iran are already in a state of undeclared war. If — or, rather, when — Israel invades Gaza, Iran is bound to react, either through its proxies in Lebanon or directly itself. I would have thought this is more or less inevitable.
Then what — Israel bombs Iran. Iran bombs Israel. The US bombs Iran? Oil prices rise and Putin laughs. No doubt that unimpressive little man Blinken is trying to avoid this by diplomatic means but clearly not succeeding.
The only way to stop this starting would be for Biden to tell Nutty-yahoo and his Jewish Nationalist government not to invade Gaza. But how likely is that? He’s probably only going to tell them not to kill so many people in Gaza or to only kill them humanely.
In the internet the Leninists and the left wingers are doing a much better propaganda job than the capitalist class , they are saving money in warmongering and nationalists advertising They never learn. All the critiques against the Socialist Party is that we are holding old anti Marxists principles and we do not want to change, which means that we must be warmongers, nationalists, patriotic, pro capitalist and criminals, and Marx and Engels ideas are antiquity. Several gurus were at the forum, and we were champaign socialists because we did not support wars, and pro capitalist leaders, and now the same ones are against Joe Biden calling him a criminal
One thing I’ve noticed is the Israeli spokes people keep bringing up the war against ISIS and the casualties that accrued from that: I suspect they are missing just how much the propaganda regime here buried such ideas.
If you look on the Wikipedia page, it shows that 88K ISIS militants were killed, and around 40k civilians (of which 8-13k were killed by the US coalition). The Russians killed 4-6K.
The media coverage was relatively quiet about that (except when Russians hit a hospital on the same day as the US did, it was darkly comic hearing the excuse for the US blast and condemnation for the exact same Russian action.
A comrade who is not a member of the forum has asked for this to be posted here.
The attack on Al-Ahli hospital was an attack on reality itself.
On the night of the 17th October, a missile struck the Al-Ahli hospital in Gaza, killing almost 500 people and injuring many more, all non-combatants shetering from the slaughter elsewhere in what should have been a safe, “de-conflicted” place.
This was a war crime, possibly the worst single war crime in decades.
For the rest of this article, I do not ask you to believe me. I ask you to believe your own eyes and ears. Footage is freely available from Al-Jazeera, at https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-do-we-know-about-the-strike-on-the-hospital-in-gaza
It is obvious from the footage that this was a large, powerful rocket striking at great speed. You can see this for yourself. This was a large rocket strike, it was not a small, “bottle rocket” of the kind that Hamas use to provoke an expensive response from the Iron Dome system or, on the rare occasion it gets through and actually hits something, set fire to a house or supermarket. Nor were there secondary explosions, as you can clearly see. There was one, large explosion.
With so many of these situations, they happen off camera, and the blame is a matter of he said, she said. But this is *physics*. The explosion is several orders of magnitude greater than that of any weapon Hamas possesses. The power and velocity of the missile is also far greater than anything in the Hamas arsenal. If they did have them, Jerusalem would lie in ruins.
So we can say with high confidence that Israel fired this missile, and thus committed this war crime.
But this war crime would cause the US and other colonial powers trouble in backing Israel.
So it simply could not happen: and thus did not happen.
The disinformation services, both secret and media, sprang into high gear.
Israel circulated a tape of two Hamas members discussing the strike and blaming it on Islamic Jihad. Firstly, any two Arabic speakers could have put this together, so it is no evidence at all. Secondly, by all accounts, they do not even speak in Gazan accents. Thirdly, if Israel had this level of confidence in intercepting communications, it would mean that they must have had advance warning of the initial attack and did nothing – but that’s an argument for another day.
This was quite enough for the senescent leader of the free world, Biden, to declare this a strike by the “other team”. As if his judgment held any more meaning than the rest of his presidency.
But enquiring minds are harder to satisfy than the world’s most powerful man, late for nap time. So the BBC strode into action, with its “BBC Verify” service, which absolutely will tell you the truth, the half truth, and anything but the truth, just as John Simpson, rather than put a spin on the news, will instead lie straight to your face from dawn till dusk. They ignored the physics and pointed to the fairly small crater, and the fact that there were rather few tiles missing from a roof. Now a large crater is a sign of amateurism: professional murderers ensure that their weapons, instead of excavating holes, murder people on the surface. A small crater is what you would expect from a powered rocket landing at a relatively shallow angle. And the tiles were probably protected by the flesh of 500 people who were ripped apart and whose parts had to be collected from across the courtyard by their loved ones. Again, to footnote this unspeakable crime, nothing in Hamas’ arsenal could have done anything like this.
So where are we?
The president of Israel has lied with a straight face to the leaders of their allied powers, principally the president of the USA and the Prime Minister of Britain. Netanyahu has taken no trouble whatsoever to make it plausible: a war crime has been turned into an ultimatum, and a complicity, to force the USA and UK to collaborate in the worst single war crime for decades by covering it up. Whether the war crime was deliberate or accidental, it has been turned into a golden opportunity. The US and UK now cannot back out, or evidence of their crude complicity can easily be circulated.
Said President and Prime Minister, however, have lapped it up. They could have said “Enough is enough” and even without formally acknowledging the truth, in practice demanding that Israel desist. But they have not. Biden has been if anything overeager: our own Rishi Sunak was only slightly less bloodthirsty.
The media machines of the affected states have gone into high gear to explain the inexplicable. The BBC is of particular interest to us because it is supposedly sacrosanct, “Auntie Beeb”. Murdoch may dictate a lie to all his worldwide media holdings: the BBC isn’t meant to do that. Nevertheless the BBC has lied with breakthtaking enthusiasm. Instead of just saying that the PM has accepted it, and that’s good enough for them, they have tasked a whole disinformation unit to conceal the evidence and point it instead at the state’s current enemy. It’s like a UFO conspiracy: except they have conspired to cover up an actual unidentified flying object, this time clearly captured on video and with overwhelming physical evidence, and present it as the result of a Hamas firework.
In that our day to day reality is established by the media, and our only regulation is the BBC – they are tearing reality itself asunder. Memory in the UK is being formed by the media machine as a whole, with the willing complicity of the BBC, and when in the future the truth is revealed, it will strike, if at all, as lightning from a clear sky.
Now we know that politicians lie – to the point where it becomes irrelevant. They say what they want us to believe, and truth or falsehood is utterly irelevant. Only convenience matters.
But the BBC somehow gets treasured. We fight for the licence fee to remain, to fund the BBC, and it is considered part of our public life, our civic presence.
What do we do when the BBC is a worthless, lying institution? Not only that, but has such contempt for its viewers that it is prepared not only to lie, to cover up war crimes, but in this instance to stand in front of what is clearly a war crime handing out leaflets telling you to disbelieve your own eyes – with the constant and daily threat since 2015 that to believe in one’s own senses and reason in such a circumstance, is to be anti-Semitic?
I wish I had answers. I have none.
Simon Wigley.
Very good analysis of the situation by Simon
There is also this
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
https://twitter.com/MihajlovicMike/status/1714384179230580916
Although to be fair to the BBC one of its reporters did actually suggest the missile might have been fired by the Israeli side and so incurred the wrath of the Israeli regime:
“The Israeli government has accused the BBC of perpetuating a “modern blood libel” in its reporting of the catastrophic explosion at al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza.
In the immediate aftermath of the incident on Tuesday evening, a BBC reporter suggested that Israel was likely to be at fault. This was likened by the official Israeli government account on X, formerly known as Twitter, to the antisemitic lie that Jews have murdered Christian boys to use their blood for religious rituals.
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