Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitic
- This topic has 838 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 3 months, 3 weeks ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Our opposition to Zionism does not mean that we support the PLO or Hamas. While we can sympathise with our fellow workers when they are so obviously being oppressed, we cannot support armed uprising – even less massacres of fellow workers – to establish a Palestine state.
It is not just Jewish nationalism that we condemn. We condemn all nationalisms equally. The ‘Palestinian nation’ is just as much a myth as the ‘Jewish nation’, or any other nation. Just like most Jews, most Palestinians are workers and should also seek freedom from oppression through uniting with workers from the other parts of the planet to establish a world of common ownership and democratic control. A Palestine state would be just another capitalist state in which workers are exploited for profit, as they are in all capitalist states.
Nationalism is the ideology which seeks to justify the capitalist division of the world into separate ‘nation-states’, each competing to gain a place in the sun for its ruling class and each with killing machines at its disposal. We utterly reject this view of the way humanity should organise itself.
Our view is that all oppressed peoples should seek their liberation, not as members of nations or religions or ethnic groups, but as workers. They should unite to abolish the division of the world into so-called nation-states and to establish a world cooperative commonwealth of in which we will all be free and equal members – citizens of the world, not subjects of nation-states.
Both sides have a double standard, there is not one side only , that is the reason why this conflict must be viewed from a class point of view instead of a leftwing and social democrat point of view which always take one side with interclass conflicts, or dispute among rulers
The mainstream media is controlled and financed by the capitalist class around the whole world, it is called capitalist press, and both sides have capitalist interests, they are not going to defend the interests of the world working class, even more, the so called false socialist press also defends the interest of a particular ruling class
It is the same case of the war in Ukraine, and it was the same case of WW one, Korean War, Iraq war, Kuwait war, WW two, Vietnam war, and any so called national liberation war , and we never supported any of those events, we adopted a class point of view
Protesting favoring one side does not make any difference, both side must be exposed, there are workers in Israel and there are workers in Palestine, and both sides have a ruling class, and in both sides workers are exploited by their own capitalist class, even more, in Israel there are workers from other countries ( Africans and Asians ) who also live in poverty and are wage slaves
That is the reason why socialists can not take sides with any sides of any inter class conflicts, we must assume an independent class point of view, and we must support workers on both sides, and we should not promote the killing among workers, on the contrary, we must promote the unity among workers, a war among Israel and Palestine will produce the killing of thousands of workers from both sides defending their own ruling class and defending bourgeoisie nationalism and patriotism. Palestine and Israel ruling class have the same class and economical interests
Our view is that all oppressed peoples should seek their liberation, not as members of nations or religions or ethnic groups, but as workers. They should unite to abolish the division of the world into so-called nation-states and to establish a world cooperative commonwealth of in which we will all be free and equal members – citizens of the world, not subjects of nation-states.
======================================================================It was clearly mentioned by Marx on the jewish question and the so called socialists and leftwings support killing, nationalism, nation-state, and Holy books
It looks like things are going to get worse judging by comments like this:
“And it is these scenes which are galvanising resolve here in Israel. Rabbi David Fendel, who is delivering aid to Michel, says there can be no peace now. “We have to keep bombing until they can’t lift their heads,” he adds.”
and
“To pile on further pressure, Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant also declared a “total siege” on the strip, an act human rights groups said would amount to collective punishment and may violate international law. There are concerns a total blockade will spark a devastating humanitarian catastrophe for the more than two million people who live in the strip. Almost half of them are children.
“No power, no food, no gas, everything is closed,” Gallant said. “We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly”
The hypocrisy of the Israeli regime stinks but then both sides have got blood on their hands. Both sides are equally deluded in thinking that an escalation of the violence is the solution. The only thing that might restrain the Israeli regime from carrying out what Gallant suggests it does is the fact that Hamas has some 130 “hostages”, as I understand it, who they have threatened to callously execute one by one if things get worse for Gaza – that and maybe pressure from the EU and even the US who might be concerned about the bad image and the implications for relations with the Arab countries. But that hasn’t yet stopped Israel from expressing its bloodlust by bombing Gaza which it has just done
What a goddamn awful situation this all is! The disease of nationalism seems to have driven people crazy and turned them into raving lunatics
Our view is that all oppressed peoples should seek their liberation, not as members of nations or religions or ethnic groups, but as workers. They should unite to abolish the division of the world into so-called nation-states and to establish a world cooperative commonwealth of in which we will all be free and equal members – citizens of the world, not subjects of nation-states.
And in the meantime oppressed people should just “turn the other cheek”, recognise their present existence as “a Vale of Tears”, and trust in their assured salvation in the hereafter.
No essential difference then to the approach taken by religious zealots, except that the “hereafter” promised in this case is socialism and not heaven. One not so small problem – heaven doesn’t exist and neither will ‘heaven on earth’.
Not at all, but subordinating the struggle to military discipline and methods is a dangerous distraction, the point is to convert military struggle into political struggle for human rights (not national rights) and use strength as *workers* not as soldiers.
And, again, military action should have a prospect of success: there is no success for this action, all Hamas could do is hope a 3rd party actor will step in against Israel (who have nukes). Suicide by cop is not a political strategy.
Well, if socialism is pie in the sky and capitalism the only game in town, what do you see as the answer within capitalism to the oppression of Palestine’s non-Jewish inhabitants?
“No essential difference then to the approach taken by religious zealots, except that the “hereafter” promised in this case is socialism and not heaven.”
_____________________________________When someone starts making these sorts of comments you just know they have run out of useful arguments or else have little to no understanding of what the socialist position on the matter is.
Of course, we don’t urge Palestinian workers to “turn the other cheek” in the face of all the provocations they face. On what grounds did Lizzie45 dream this up? However, just as important as having a view on what we think workers should do is having a view on what we think workers should NOT do.
Firstly, whatever tactical victory Hamas believes it has achieved in catching the Israeli military off guard, the slaughter of hundreds of Israeli citizens has whipped up such a bloodlust, such a thirst for revenge, that you can be certain that the situation facing Palestinian workers, bad as it is now, is going to get much worse. Hamas has done them no favours at all.
Secondly, we vigorously oppose nationalism and anything to do with the idea of creating another capitalist state. I have been arguing with a Trot on another forum who maintains that Palestinian workers should be allowed to own their own state. But they would no more own that state than Israeli workers own the Israeli state. The state is an instrument that allows a ruling class to rule. In advocating for a state, workers are advocating for their own servitude and submission to this state.
I don’t know if Lizzie45 is a Trot but she certainly sounds like one. There is not much that socialist-minded Palestinian workers can do in the face of all this whipped-up hysteria and nationalist bloodlust but, if it were possible, one of the things they could do is forge links with like-minded Israeli workers. There are people in Israel who have a lot of sympathy for the people in Gaza and the West Bank. Unfortunately, one of the outcomes of the Hamas atrocity is that the voices of these people are likely to be dimmed if not silenced for the time being
Well, if socialism is pie in the sky and capitalism the only game in town, what do you see as the answer within capitalism to the oppression of Palestine’s non-Jewish inhabitants?
There probably isn’t an answer so anticipate further bloodshed – one way or another Homo Sapiens will eventually self-destruct.
Anyway, I scoot off now. Off on a tour of observatories in South America before attending a seminar on quantum gravitation. Then Österreich for Yuletide.
Some girls have all the fun 🙂
It seems like the momentum to curtail free speech is gathering pace
I love the bit about “disinformation”. My intray is literally bursting with rancid pro-Ukraine articles pumping out obvious fake news all the time. But will our “freedom-loving” authorities do anything about that? You bet they won’t
Then there is this from Braverman the Minister for Stamping Out Dissent
People are getting fired from their jobs or are being publicly ridiculed for even daring to criticise the Israeli state on such transparently dishonest grounds that this is anti-Semitic. “1984” is not so much behind us as looming ahead
Now, the situation for the Palestinian is even worse than before the Hamas attack, and retaliations have already started by the government of Israel conducted with a very powerful army superior than Hamas
The Israel government is going to activate more than 306,000 army reservists and they are getting ready for a full ground attack, and the USA have used the attack as a pretext to militarize the Middle East and to obtain more funding for wars. and to use ultra modern warships, missiles and airplanes, and it is another excuse for Joe Biden to increase his popularity which is declining
The US is replenishing the Israeli army with more modern weapons, and they are already using white phosphorus against the Palestine population,
Many building, schools, hospital and houses have been destroyed, and the Palestinian are being surrounded and they do not have any way to escape, and thousands are going to be killed
They are without water, food and medical supplies, and all access has been blocked by the Israeli army.
If by any reason other Arabs countries attack Israel the war is going to spread to other areas in the Middle East including Lebanon. a situation that might favor the USA
Hamas has not done a favor to the Palestinian, but they have done a favor to Israel and the USA militarists, and Hamas have shot themselves in the foot because probably the Israel and the US is going to wipe out them completely
—Not a bad article. Makes some valid points, I think. Gawd knows what the future holds, mind you…
The ICT has put out a statement on the situation in Israel/Gaza. What it says is not dissimilar to what the SPGB would say
For example
“In the same way, anyone who supports only Palestinian workers and ignores the Israeli working class, jumps from the frying pan into the fire. They think that the former clashing with the latter is not important because the latter is just a slave to the ultranationalist policy of its government. But the Palestinian working class, in its turn, is under the thumb of a bunch of capitalists who have no hesitation about siding with the imperialism of the ayatollahs: one of the most vicious set of rulers when dealing with internal opposition. Thus both sets of workers are trapped in the logic of capitalism, nationalism, and imperialism, where war is the only solution and not liberation from wage slavery.”
I was going to point out that good ICT (CWO) article, but Robbo has beat me to it.
Here though are a couple of things by estimable libcom poster Craftwork:
1) https://libcom.org/discussion/solidarity-proletariat-abolish-israel-and-palestine
and the more general
2) https://libcom.org/article/anarchism-nationalism-war-and-peace , in which that quote from Wolfgang Pohrt is especially good.
(In link (1) among the comments, ‘westartfromhere’ is suddenly sarcastic (I doubt it) or confused when he writes ‘Abolition of the nation state? I thought the task of the working class of each nation state was to raise itself to be the foremost class, to form its dictatorship over all other classes. It is certain globalist factions of the bourgeoisie that would wish the demise of the nation state to better lord it over the proletariat.’ At my time of writing no one has replied to it yet.)
The USA supported the Ayatollah in order to overthrow a bourgeois liberal democratic government in Iran and they preferred to provide support to a theocratic reactionary government, and Ronald Reagan received at the White House the Taliban and they called them the Freedom Fighters when they were opposing the soviet invasion
They do not remember when Israel was indirectly supporting Hamas to oppose the PLO, they all suffered from historical amnesia and when Gaddafi collaborated with England and the USA, he was the one who really had weapons of mass destruction.
Those left-wingers that are supporting Hamas are jumping from one frypan into another frypan, like the one supporting the Ukrainian government. They do not see workers on both sides, they need binoculars, and then they are going to write articles on political line rectification, and mea culpa
Hamas also made millions of dollars importing goods from Egypt and others Arabs countries to Gaza, it is just another corrupted capitalist force in Gaza, they are not the liberator of the Palestinian either, and they have made opposition to other JIhad groups
We have a very good article which says that all dictators, criminals, state gangsters, terrorist groups and reactionary governments have been friends and allies of the western powers, they use them and when they do not need them they throw them away and they become their enemies.
During WW 2 there were pictures of Roosevelt and Stalin at the U S Post offices saying: This is our friend, and then he became their enemy, he was the devil.
Ho Chi Min accepted the French colonialists back to Vietnam because Stalin was an ally of the USA, and England, and he was the chieftain of all those so called patriots, but they do not remember when Stalin made secrets accords with the USA and England to split territories in Asia
PS: For all the brave keyboard nationalists warriors the FARC is looking for fighters, and Hamas would be looking for fighters, they have rifles ready for them, the funding comes from different capitalist sources.
The SPGB does not have blood in its hands, our objective is not to run a popular contest, we can lose it with all the reformists groups that exist around the world, our main objective is to propagate socialism and to make socialists
—
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.