Andrew Kliman in London
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"We want to let those of you in the U.K. know that Andrew Kliman will be visiting there this summer, from June 25 to July 12. He is available to speak on several topics. Some dates are already taken, so please contact us soon if you wish to arrange to book him as a speaker."
Just received this from the Marxist Humanist Inititaive. Might be an idea to debate with him?
mailto:mhi@marxisthumanistinitiative.org
A very good idea, OzyHe is acquainted with the party and is sympathetic to some of its views. Myself and at least one other member have in the past corresponded with him. I'm pretty sure if he has the time, he will be receptive. But i'd rather not stage a formal debate but permit him to do a presentation with a question and answer session afterwards…a more comradely approach …why go looking for an argument when there might not necessarily be one …I would suggest the relevant committee (campaigns?) to be quick of the mark and reach an early arrangement, fixing up a topic with him so that we can publicise the event among the left-wing…He has an ongoing theoretical economics polemic with SPEW on over/under consumptionism so they may be drawn to the meeting…He is also a critic of the co-op proponents Wolffe and Alperitz…so if that is chosen to be the subject of his talk, it may bring the Greens/Left Unity to the meeting…
Andrew Kliman has agreed to give a talk at Head Office on Sunday, 5 July at 3pmhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/event/talk-andrew-kliman-head-office-3pm
With plenty of notice there is no reason why we can't go full out on this with publicity, leaflets, filming, etc.
Definately a good idea to get a decent film job done. Regarding video production values, many of the talks and debates found on YouTube are seriously lacking.
gnome wrote:Andrew Kliman has agreed to give a talk at Head Office on Sunday, 5 July at 3pmhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/event/talk-andrew-kliman-head-office-3pmAbsolutely fantastic!!! I'm very impressed.
SocialistPunk wrote:Definately a good idea to get a decent film job done. Regarding video production values, many of the talks and debates found on YouTube are seriously lacking.This is a question the Campaigns Committee and the EC should address as a matter of urgency. We have an Audio/Visual Committee but I remain to be convinced we have either the appropriate equipment or personnel, with the exception of a member who lives on the IOW, to enable us to get a decent film job done.
Can i ask a very obvious but as yet unclarified question…What is his talk going to be about? What's the topic?What's the title?I think we should ask him so that we can do all that advance publicity
As far as explaining crises is concerned , Kliman belongs to the (somewhat dodgy) "falling rate of profit" school of thought.. This might be an opportunity to question him on that and on the merits of disproportionality theory which is I believe the theory that the SPGB endorses. See Simon Clarke's cogent defence of the latter here https://marxismocritico.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/the-marxist-theory-of-overaccumulation-and-crisis.pdf
He is also a vigourous critic of Richard Woolf and Gar Alperovitz who are proponents of models for self-managed capitalism and if i was to choose a theme that explored our shared positions instead of highlighting differences (the Matticks, both father and son were also adherents to the declining rate of profit) this would be the topic i would suggest. Too often i come across on the web the utopian aspirations of a "new economy" cooperative advocates and i rather we direct attention to those who seem to believe there can be a humane form of commodity production than get entangled in economic formulas..(i think i said before on another thread, my mind blurs the instant an algebraic equation is used in an explanation)I am sure his views on capitalist crises and their cause may well come up in Q and A or during the post-meeting pub discussion…(I take it we will treat him to one of Clapham High St's excellent Indian meals and few pints of the best bitter.)
robbo203 wrote:Kliman belongs to the (somewhat dodgy) "falling rate of profit" school of thought..Depends what you mean here, there isn't really a single "falling rate of profit" school, If you think he can be lumped with those that prophesied the collapse of capitalism because of this you're flat wrong.See these three articles, including an interview with him, in the Standard…http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2014/no-1316-april-2014/relevance-marxian-economics-todayhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2014/no-1324-december-2014/book-reviews-population-10-billion-failure-capithttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2014/no-1313-january-2014/book-reviews-revolution-will-be-hilarious-can-inc
DJP wrote:robbo203 wrote:Kliman belongs to the (somewhat dodgy) "falling rate of profit" school of thought..Depends what you mean here, there isn't really a single "falling rate of profit" school, If you think he can be lumped with those that prophesied the collapse of capitalism because of this you're flat wrong.
No I dont think that. I agree that you can subscribe to the falling rate of profit theory of crises without holding a collapsist position which as far as I know is what Kliman does. Its just that I cant see how that particular theory holds water. Profits can fall for reasons other than a change in the organic compostion of capital and the latter is too slow a process to account for a crisis anyway – at least as I understand it.
robbo203 wrote:DJP wrote:robbo203 wrote:Kliman belongs to the (somewhat dodgy) "falling rate of profit" school of thought..Depends what you mean here, there isn't really a single "falling rate of profit" school, If you think he can be lumped with those that prophesied the collapse of capitalism because of this you're flat wrong.
No I dont think that. I agree that you can subscribe to the falling rate of profit theory of crises without holding a collapsist position which as far as I know is what Kliman does. Its just that I cant see how that particular theory holds water. Profits can fall for reasons other than a change in the organic compostion of capital and the latter is too slow a process to account for a crisis anyway – at least as I understand it.
Killman belongs to the school of Economical thought of Raya Dunayeskaya who had a wrong conception about the falling rate of profits. I would prefer to listen to Peter Hudis who has a different point of view, and he has been within the Marxist Humanism movement for several decadeshttps://www.marxists.org/archive/dunayevskaya/works/1947/decline-profit.htm
robbo203 wrote:Profits can fall for reasons other than a change in the organic compostion of capital and the latter is too slow a process to account for a crisis anyway – at least as I understand it.Seems to me that you've understood Kliman too simplistically. See the interview in the Standard and this exchange with David Harvey:http://www.marxisthumanistinitiative.org/economic-crisis/harvey-versus-marx-on-capitalisms-crises.html
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