American election
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in Europe, many workers have more social benefits than the USA workers, and many workers have workers union, in the USA workers unions have declined drastically, – ms
True, largely b/c Europeans are more informed politically and exercise their right to vote. They don’t throw away their ballot, as many on here are advocating.
The only monster that we have in front of us is capitalism and it could be state capitalism or corporate capitalism – ms
So in the meantime, let them starve, take away their health care etc?
So if Hitler, Musslonin, Franco, Stalin, Pol Pot etc. were not monsters, what were they?
If we count all the young peoples who did not vote, and the followers of Bernie Sanders who did not vote either, we can say that the USA has more than 100 millions of Fascists and Nazis, more Fascists and Nazists that Italy and Germany combined.- ms
People who are ill-informed about their actions are not fascists. They are just stupid, like yourself. In fact, by not voting in 2016 they put the trump crime syndicate in power, and you’re suggesting that was a good idea? How foolish can you be?
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I have enough arguments to knock you down, you are not an ideological or academic threat either. You are not an analyst or a political critiquer, we have asked you several questions and you have not answered any of them, instead of answering them you just attack the messenger, and when we do that it is a clear indication that the other person does not have the proper knowledge and argumentation and there is a syndrome which explains that too. Fascism is not lack of information, Germany was the most advanced and educated country in Europe and they elected the Nazis, as well Italy was the cultural centre of Europe and they elected the Fascists, both concepts are form adopted by capitalism which influenced the minds of the Italians and the German workers based on extreme nationalism. Most peoples in this forum they have dedicated their lives to the cause of the working class for many years, they are not amateurs and they are not foolish either
The Exit polls are interesting:
https://electoral-vote.com/#item-3
There is actually very little between the two candidates: Biden got more of the poorer voters (but not by an appreciable margin, compared to say, support among evangelicals [and Biden, a Catholic, was never going to score highly there]). Obviously, among minority ethnicities, Biden massively outscored Trump, but, really, the only gap (and I think this probably overlaps with ethnicity a little) is between big cities and rural population (which, again, may correlate with the evangelical thing).
But, the chief thing is that Trumps support was solid, and widespread across the whole of America, that cannot be denied. .
The only monster that we have in front of us is capitalism and it could be state capitalism or corporate capitalism – ms
So in the meantime, let them starve, take away their health care etc?
So if Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Stalin, Pol Pot etc. were not monsters, what were they?
Which health care? Don’t you know that Obamacare is a tax law? , It was published in this thread, and you did not read it. If they remove the tax law the whole thing falls apart, and it is a provision passed mostly amended by Republican senators.
Medicare is something different, and the Democrats stopped the expansion of medicare, and Joe Biden has said that he will not approve anything related to medicare for all. When Roosevelt passed SS it was only a two-page law, Obama care is more than 1000 pages law to provide more profits to the insurance companies
The Republicans senators just want to remove the tax law to give a free ride to the insurance company, they do not want to remove the whole thing, the tax law affect peoples who fall within certain income bracket but it does not affect the insurance company, on the contrary, it produces high profits for them, even more, the biggest salary is earned by the CEO of the insurance and health system.
The supreme court is not going to remove it either, even if they have elected Donald Trump, before starting the argumentation they said that they were not going to remove it either. The precedent known as Separated but Equal was removed by a bunch of reactionaries judges and magistrates in the Supreme Court, and only one liberal and the president in that time was a reactionary Republican and a warmonger
The state is an institution financed with surplus-value called taxes, and most taxes are paid by the capitalist class
Those are not monsters, those are leaders of the capitalist society, Lenin and Trotsky they were monsters too, and most of the president of the USA starting with George Washington they were monsters too. Trotsky was a despot when he was in charge of the Red Army and workers preferred Stalin instead of him, Lenin and Trotsky were the first commissars who ordered the killing of workers when they opposed the Bolsheviks
The Exit polls are interesting:
https://electoral-vote.com/#item-3
There is actually very little between the two candidates: Biden got more of the poorer voters (but not by an appreciable margin, compared to say, support among evangelicals [and Biden, a Catholic, was never going to score highly there]). Obviously, among minority ethnicities, Biden massively outscored Trump, but, really, the only gap (and I think this probably overlaps with ethnicity a little) is between big cities and rural population (which, again, may correl
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They were expecting a landslide and it did not take place, on the contrary, Trump popularity increased, they rejected Trump, but they do not trust in the Democrats, the percentage of white women who voted for Trump also increased. Biden won due to the approval of the Latin American voters and the Afro Americans, and many of them did not vote for any one of the candidates. They lost some seats because several reactionaries democrats were replaced by other reactionaries republicans. The Democrat had more money than the Republicans and they spent more time campaign in TV advertising but Republicans did door to door campaign
Poor little robbo doesn’t realize that by not voting he is helping the opposition, the greater evil. In the meantime, while you wait for the socialist candidate to appear on the ballet, he says “Let them eat cake!” “ACA is not perfect, so kill it!” “Social Security is not perfect, kill it!”. Champagne socialists, who enjoy all the fruits of a bourgeois life while denying others of them, are the worst kinds of fascists. In fact you’re worse, you would take their cake away from them and let them starve.
LT
You are getting more ridiculous by the minute. (And by the way aren’t you being a bit a presumptuous implying I am a champagne socialist. Would that I could afford a bottle of champers right now but I’ve got the rent to pay)
Since you evidently know nothing about socialism or how socialists think, let me try to explain a thing or two to you. Completely contrary to what you think, we have got nothing against workers getting what they can out of the system that screws them over. The idiotic words you put in our mouths – like “Make the working class hurt, so we can prove our point of being “principled” – is actually laughably wide of the mark. If that were the case how would it square with our views on trade unionism for instance. We fully support the principle of militant trade union action on sound lines to get better pay and working conditions and, indeed, many socialists in this movement are themselves active trade unionists
As for reforms, I repeat again – socialists recognise that some reforms can be of benefit to workers. We dont oppose reforms – where did you get this stupid idea from? What we oppose is the strategy of reformism, of advocating reforms. If you go down that road you might as well relinquish any claim to being a socialist or pursuing socialism . Inevitably socialism will be side-lined and postponed indefinitely in the struggle to reform capitalism
You cant try to simultaneously end capitalism and mend capitalism. It has unfortunately to be one other the other. Actually, if anyone is enabling the working class to hurt it is you my little reformist friend. You fully support the perpetuation of a system that cannot but hurt the working class. Indeed you openly admit to supporting a neoliberal capitalist party like the Democrats. There is only one way in which capitalism can be administered and that is against the interest of workers and in the interests of capital.
One final point. Your tiresomely repetitive jibes at anyone who disagrees with you as a “fascist” makes you sound like a fourteen year old, going on 11. who has just encountered a whole new world of political ideas. Isn’t it about time you grew up and matured politically? According to your way of thinking even somebody who voted for the Green party would be a fascist cos they didn’t vote for your favourite Neoliberal
Pathetic really. About time you learnt something about what fascism is (and is not) instead of droning on endlessly about it like some politically precocious and edgy schoolkid
in Europe, many workers have more social benefits than the USA workers, and many workers have workers union, in the USA workers unions have declined drastically, – ms
True, largely b/c Europeans are more informed politically and exercise their right to vote. They don’t throw away their ballot, as many on here are advocating.
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Wrong again, or you are lying, or you do not understand what we are saying, nobody here has said to throw away the ballot, but to spoil the ballot, those are two different argumentations, and also they were talking about the case of Argentina which is something different too, and the statistics were published in this forum, and they used a different tactic. The SPGB participates in the election in England, and in the past, some members of the WSPUS voted for the SLP of America. We have a pamphlet about our principles on parliamentary election. You should read it
https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlet/whats-wrong-with-using-parliament/ What’s wrong with using parliament
You sound more like a supporter of Antifas than a Trotskyist and within that groups ( which is not an organized movement, or real anarchists ) they have all kind of peoples including Anarco capitalist, and discontented republicans (similar to the Lincoln Project ) for them everything is fascism or nazism
In Argentina, workers had more social benefits than the USA workers and most reforms were passed by Domingo Peron who was considered to be a Nazis, and he expropriated many economical sectors of the country including telecommunication, transportation, education and the health system, and he did not want to support ww2 at the beginning he was neutral
YMS,
While the full voting figures are not in and full analysis of the voting trends are still to be determined this article gives a reasonable start.
US election: women, the young, the working class, the cities and ethnic minorities get rid of Trump
To sum up, Americans turned out for this election in slightly larger numbers, but the turnout was still way down compared to other ‘liberal democracies’. They voted even more strongly for the Democratic candidate than in 2016, but the constitutional peculiarities of the election system made the result quite close – although, more or less, in line with pollster forecasts. Biden won because America’s ethnic minorities overcame the white majority. Biden won because younger Americans voted for Biden sufficiently to overcome Trump majorities among older voters. Biden won because working class Americans voted for him in sufficient numbers to overcome the votes of the small town business-people and rural areas.
Several lower courts have rejected Trump election fraud case due to lack of evidences and the Supreme Court is not going to reverse the election result.
He is going through the same situación as al gore faced with George bush
I think he must pack and leave to Florida otherwise they are going to kick him out as trespasser
Tomorrow on Saturday in Washington DC we will see just how many will take to the streets to support Trump’s claims in what is being called the “Million MAGA March” to “Stop the Steal.”
There is not going to be any coup and there is not going to be any civil war
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