American election
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For once LT has posted something relatively rational and seems to know what he is talking about. More detail than me anyway but we have never said scrap Obamacare any more than we have say scrap the NHS in Britain.
We recognise that some reforms can benefit workers at least for a while and a health service free to patients is one such reform. Obamacare of course doesn’t offer this but is about a subsidised private health care insurance for all but at least it is better than nothing. Needless to say both schemes are subject to the monetary cost considerations since they have to subsidised from taxes that in the end fall on capitalist profits.
I don’t think that Trump or the Republicans want to abolish subsidised health care in the US or scrap so-called Obamacare completely. They want to save costs by cutting the subsidies and making it pay its way more through increased premiums and reduced coverage. Just as have Conservative and Labour governments here over the years, introducing prescriptions charges and payment for dental services. That’s what you’d expect under capitalism since it exists for the benefit of the capitalist class not the working class.
LT supports some improvements to Obamacare to catch up with more efficient health care systems in Europe, Canada, etc. Good luck to him. We are not opposed to them. Workers should except whatever crumbs they are offered however meagre.
But rather than campaign for bigger crumbs they would be better advised to campaign for the whole bakery (and the fields where the wheat is grown, etc). That way there can be a completely free health service and one not subject to capitalist tax-saving considerations and pressures.
By coincidence it’s today that the Supreme Court is beginning an oral hearing on the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act. In theory they could strike it down but they are not expected to do so. This seems to be another party political scare story.
It is not even clear that this is what the Republican Party really want. From today’s Guardian:
”Many conservative legal scholars have said the legal argument for dismantling the entire law is weak and during the Coney Barrett deliberations, several Republicans insisted the law would not be struck down. In October, the nation’s highest-ranking Republican after Trump, the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, said: “No one believes the supreme court is going to strike down the Affordable Care Act.”
We shall see.
They are not going to strike down ACA, even if they had 200 Republican magistrates in the Supreme Court, and they are not going to reverse the election results either, even if the Trump campaign is able to hire the best attorney, both cases are very weak, and they are not going to do the whole recount because that will cost money to them and they do not have that kind of money to do that, even more, Mike Pence is collecting money for that, they are passing the hat to their donors, and some of them do not want to invest more money in a lost cause. Joe Biden is the new pitcher of Wall Street, and they are going to remove the carpet to Donald Trump. It is the first in history that the capitalist press pulls the plug to a president and his speakers, the romance is over,
So are you proposing that Sanders and AOC should stop demanding M4A and that they should not be exposing how Bidencare falls short.
Red herring. You’re off topic again. The issue is not Sanders/AOC vs Biden. The issue is Trump vs Biden. Nice try though, trumper. You and a few others always give the excuse to not vote b/c Biden is the “lesser evil”, he is a “cop-out”. Tell that to all the Americans who lost loved ones b/c they didn’t have health care before ACA or had to declare bankruptcy as a result of medical bills. How shameful and despicable can you be?
Every argument you pose effectively says that we should let trump win by not voting b/c he is the greater evil, that the people should suffer b/c a socialist isn’t on the ballot. Utter lunacy.
Btw, you still haven’t presented any case or example of where forfeiting your vote has changed something, b/c you can’t, trumper.
I don’t think that Trump or the Republicans want to abolish subsidised health care in the US or scrap so-called Obamacare completely.
Yes they do, but they can’t get away with it. If you’ve been following the events in the US over the last 4 years you would have known this. Every time the issue of scrapping ACA comes up, the Rep. face stiff public opposition and back down. Why? Because ACA is better than nothing, which is exactly what you and the GOP want.
But rather than campaign for bigger crumbs they would be better advised to campaign for the whole bakery (and the fields where the wheat is grown, etc). That way there can be a completely free health service and one not subject to capitalist tax-saving considerations and pressures.
How rich of you privileged folk to tell the people to suffer without health care and wait for the big day when it suddenly arrives all at once. Please provide an example of where this approach has worked. I know you won’t, b/c no such example exists.
In this conflict, the only winner is the capitalist class and the only loser is the working class. When the working class support and vote for his own oppressor it becomes the loser and the capitalist class become the winner because they are approving the continuation of capitalism. Both sides of the working class are poor including the poor peoples of Miami who live in ghettos and in extreme poverty, and they are not fascists either, there are not fascists and there is not fascism either, they were defeated in WW2, it is only a Stalinists post-war propaganda, they have been confused with populist arguments in the same way that the Brazilian populists ruling class were able to confuse the workers, and the others side of the left-wingers did the same thing using populist arguments like Hugo Chavez and the Unified Socialist Party of Venezuela are left wings, populists or demagogues. Warren Buffet said: There is a class war and my class is winning the war, and he is right. Workers in the USA do not have to vote for a president, they just need a genuine workers socialist party and select their own candidates for Senators and the House ( Federal and State ) and they have control of the political system, and then to expropriate the whole capitalist class, and then they will become the winners. They will also have the authority to remove their own candidate who does not comply with the mandate of the working class. The concept is not to vote but to vote for socialism
My grandfather said all the time that he was living under the best democracy because the military and the police always picked up his voting identification while he was seating in his house smoking, drinking and listening to his favourite radio stations from his Telenfunken and they always voted for him, and they made the choices for him. He used to tell them, to select the good one, because both were a good piece of shits.
He never believed in the concept of the lesser evil, but it was mandatory to vote, under the penalty of death instead of under the penalty of perjury, but he was a brave man, he was never afraid to talk, and he was never afraid to fight back, he was a Yankee and fought against the Yankees and he never believed in the lies of the so-called American democracy and its electoral system
He also said I do not see any difference if the Soviet Union and the USA has won the war, they are both the same shit and probably worst than the Nazis, or they were all the same shits
He told to the so-called patriots go to war and I stay watching the girls for you and I will bring them to your funerals because peoples with money like me need fool like you to fight for us.
A friend of mine who was a Hillbilly said: let’s stop voting for the capitalist parties and stay home watching tv and drinking beers, and they will come to force us to vote because they need us, but if we build our own real workers’ parties lets go to vote all of us for ourselves and kick them out and we will go after them because we do not need them
The only solution that we have is to vote for a real-world socialist party and obtain freedom and emancipation by ourselves without the need of leaders, vanguard parties, and the so-called leaders of the proletariat, we do not need them either, they are like the capitalist parties and the capitalist politicians, we must kick them out.
The problem in the USA is not Donald Trump, Barrack Obama, or Joe Biden, fascism, or a coup, the problem is capitalism, and Trump and his Clooney are not fascists because fascism and fascists do not exist any more, they were defeated in WW2 in Germany and Italy. Most of those peoples armed and who voted and support Trump they are poor workers, like the ones supporting Joe Biden who think that a leader is going to resolve their problems, and the one supporting Trump think that they are being left out, but they do not know that their real allied are the workers who are supporting Joe Biden instead of the capitalist leaders. The anti-fascists they are not anti-fascists because they support one of the component of Fascism/Nazism which is the dictatorship of one-party rule or the vanguard party to lead
We have been confused by the right-wingers and the left-wingers, and both are irrelevant and both come from the same root known as capitalism, we do not them either, we need real socialists like the World Socialist Movement and its companion parties, there is one in the USA but it is not very popular because it is not a reformist institution like the others, and it only has one single program which is socialism/communism, it does not have one minimum and maximum program like the Leninists,( and all its tendencies ) it has one maximum program only.
I would give my vote to the Socialist Party of Great Britain, to the Socialist Party of Canada, The World Socialist Party of India, World Socialist Party of India, and the World Socialist Party of the USA, I do not waste my vote with any capitalist party or any capitalist candidate. In several countries around the world, you are allowed to add the name of your party of choice, I would write Socialism on the ballot
If the members of the Socialist Party of Great Britain ( or WSM ) are pseudo socialists, and Trumpers, we can conclude that Karl Marx was also a pseudo-socialist too, because this is the only socialist party around the whole world which is closer to the thoughts of Karl Marx and Frederich Engels and probably it has developed their body of ideas to a higher level, and it is thousands of miles away from the pseudo-socialist Lenin and his tendencies.
There is only one genuine socialist party in the USA which is the World Socialist Party of the USA and they have published several articles explaining the real nature and origin of the government of Donald Trump, and they do not support him, and they did not support Barrack Obama either, and they rejected the wrong propaganda made by the right-wingers that he was a communist, and the WSPUS is a companion party of the WSM, therefore they are not Trumpers, and the SPGB are not Trumper. We did not support ww1, ww2 and the Vietcong and it does not mean that we are pseudo socialists when most Leninists supported the so-called patriotic war of the Soviet Union, I did not know that socialist were patriotic
Some sectors of the Trotskyist movement supported Sadan Hussein because according to their conception he was an antiimperialist, and we did not support any side of that confrontation, as well others sectors of the Trotskyists movement supported Fulgencio Batista in Cuba, and then the Stalinist of Cuba or the Castroists expelled all of the Trotskyists from Cuba and many were also sent to jail including the Anarchists, as well the Stalinist of Vietnam killed many followers of Trotsky because they were the biggest opposition of Maoism, the Trotskyists also supported a coup in Mexico, the Maoists supported the government of Augusto Pinochet, and we did not support any one of those phenomena. We have never had to make any rectification because we always follow principles instead of conjunctures
And you, LT, continue to be an apologist for Biden. Something i expected from the lesser evil proponents when their evil prevails. It will be the same in the future every time Biden reneges on a promise. Have you forgotten all the Republicans who spoke at his Democratic nomination and how much time was generously allotted to them. He has already telegraphed the way he intends to go…to the right. Don’t you understand anything about Marx and his theory of the State? The US government is nothing more than the board of directors of America Inc. and the president is its CEO.
Biden failed to convince any Trump voter from 2016 to swing to his side. Even Trump’s African-American and Latino vote rose since 4 years ago. He got over half the white male and white female vote.
You are sweeping such harsh stark facts under the rug, hoping the problem goes away.
Like all those media political pundits, you see only one electoral cycle, it is a myopic view.
You believe that by succeeding in making a symptom disappear, it means the disease has gone. You are mistaking remission of the cancer as a cure.
And don’t lecture me about healthcare, i live precariously without any medical cover whatsoever. I don’t face bankruptcy – i face death – if something serious happens to me. I know much better than yourself the value of a free health service at the point of delivery, something you are happy enough to relinquish for political expediency in your supplicating support for Biden.
You’ve got to love the latest argument from these pseudo socialists
LT
At least we are advocating socialism ; you are not . And you have the perfect excuse for putting socialism perpetually on the back boiler (if you were ever interested in it in the first place which I doubt) – namely, rallying the lesser evil cause of Biden and his neoliberal cronies. That is because your Democratic Party will never realise the reformist expectations you place on it. Capitalism will grind your hopes into bitter disappointment. You wait and see.
If opposing a capitalist party like the Democrats make us “pseudo-socialist” what does supporting such a party make you?
LT,
“Btw, you still haven’t presented any case or example of where forfeiting your vote has changed something, b/c you can’t, trumper.”
I did: Argentina. You ignored it. But it did happen.
Next point.
Alan – I don’t understand why you are even talking about Biden. After all, if people listened to you and threw away their ballot, which is exactly what the fascists want, b/c a socialist isn’t on the ballot, Trump would be in power. Do you realize that there are people in this world who have put their life on the line just for the right to vote? And you childishly cast away your ballot? How juvenile can you be.
You’re living in a bubble, like QAnon, not in reality. You couldn’t care less if people have to suffer more than they are already suffering. How callous can you be?
Ignoring questions is proof that you haven’t a leg to stand on. And since you are not a participant in the election by your own choice, you haven’t a right criticize the outcome of it.
The USA 2020 election has shown that the workers are rejecting Trump but they do not trust in the Democratic Party either, and it has proven that campaign money is not everything because Biden had more campaign money than Trump and he did not have a landslide, on the contrary, the workers removed some officials from the senate and the house of representative, and now the situation is like the second term of Barrack Obama.
The campaigners of Biden trusted more in the television than in face to face contact, but the Republican went door to door like the Jehovah witness, and the popularity of Donald Trump increased, and the support from the blacks, white women and Latinos toward Trump also increased
The Squad were not removed they were elected again by the workers but they removed the reactionary democrats. Biden is going to be governing emitting executive orders all the time because if they do not obtain a majority in the senate they are going to reject all his proposal, as well, the reactionary Democrats were going to make the life impossible to Bernie Sanders.
I do not think that the Republicans who are members of the Lincoln Project are not going to support him, they are anti-Trump, but they do not support Biden, the leftwingers such as the Maoists, Stalinists, Trotskyists, Leninists and Castroists who are supporting Biden are supporting capitalism and the continuation of capitalism because he is the favourite candidate of Wall Street, the removable resources industries, the silicon valley industries, the firearms industries, the cannabis industries, the telecommunication industry and the big commercial banks, it is like the baseball game, they are placing new pitchers, new catchers and new members on the bases, but they are playing the same game under the same rules
There were a couple of socialist parties in the ballot and there was one in California. There is a blank space where voters can write the word Socialism. In the past, many peoples voted for the SLP of America even if they belonged to a different socialist/communist party
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