Air Malaysia and Ukraine
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With all the lies and obfuscation caused by capitalist propaganda we can never know the exact and specific reason or cause behind a particular conflict. We can only be certain that it is not about our freedom; it is not about democracy; it is not about free speech and it is not in our interests: But there is one thing we can be certain of, and that is that workers and not capitalists will die in the conflict.
Vin Maratty wrote:With all the lies and obfuscation caused by capitalist propaganda we can never know the exact and specific reason or cause behind a particular conflict. We can only be certain that it is not about our freedom; it is not about democracy; it is not about free speech and it is not in our interests: But there is one thing we can be certain of, and that is that workers and not capitalists will die in the conflict.Many years ago I went to a meeting for a so called anti-war coalition, and I told to the peoples that were present at the meeting including left wingers, and so called communists and Leninist, Let's ask to the workers to stay home watching TV and drinking beers when they ask us to go to fight for them, we should tell them to let the capitalists kill each others defending their so called homeland, probably, they are going to send their own national army to force us to fight and die for them, and the same things we can be done when they call the peoples to vote for them, let them elect themselves Most of them right away raised up the flag of nationalism, patriotism, national defense, and that they want their democracy back, Which democracy do you want back, when we never have had any, we can not have what we have never owned ? . immediately, I walked out of that meeting, I knew that it was a wasting of time. If we do not uproot the real causes of war which is market and nationalism, and national frontiers are more important than the life of our children, and the life of others human beings, wars will never end.
David Cameron answers SocialistPunk's question
Quote:"We are not about to launch a European war, we are not about to send the fleet to the Black Sea, we are not looking for a military confrontation"http://rt.com/uk/176824-cameron-world-war-ukraine/But it could all be just a double-bluff
A massive buildup on the Ukrainian border in the last 48 hours has seen Russia double its troop levels with 17 additional battalions and has left Western leaders trying to figure out what President Vladimir Putin is planning to do next. http://www.infowars.com/russia-prepares-large-scale-invasion-battle-ready-force-of-infantry-armor-artillery-and-air-defense/
Vin Maratty wrote:A massive buildup on the Ukrainian border in the last 48 hours has seen Russia double its troop levels with 17 additional battalions and has left Western leaders trying to figure out what President Vladimir Putin is planning to do next. http://www.infowars.com/russia-prepares-large-scale-invasion-battle-ready-force-of-infantry-armor-artillery-and-air-defense/ Let;s follow the recommendations of the Homeland Security Office of the USA. Let's buy some rolls of duct tape to cover our windows to protect ourselves from the radiation of the atomic bombs, and the biological bombs. Those tapes and the survival kits are being sold by some of the friends of George Bush
I have already seen some brainless peoples on Yahoo asking to the American government to drop atomic bombs on Russia. I wonder of how many oil and gas fields those individuals own in Ukraine. Peoples living from one paycheck to another paycheck (if they miss one they will go into bankruptcy ) supporting their own rulers, oppressors, and exploiters.
Rather than anything sinister as an invasion it could simply be a tit-for-tat response to the NATO exercises in Poland and the Baltic States where i think i previously mentioned the British are deploying one of its full mobile battle groups to participate in. Putin too announced previously a military exercise by the Russians would take place.I think right at the start of this thread ALB said this tragedy would provide food for every conspiracist theory and a whole lot have indeed sprung up.http://www.countercurrents.org/zuesse050814.htmThis one suggests two Ukrainian jets used cannon fire to bring the Malaysian plane down…expert witness on the effects of such an attack compared with missile shrapnel…a retired Lufthansa pilot. Obviously, the author has no understanding of ballistic science cpability otherwis he simply would wait for results of spectrum analysis on trace elements left by what impacted and produced the holes…that would conclusively show proof, not some civilian looking at photos. Strange how such "experts" are out there on their own. Of the thousands who would have actual first hand experience of a shot down aircraft would look like, the author can only find this ex-pilot.Of course the crazier cranks say the actual shot-down plane is the still missing other Malaysian one.
. It is true that there are too many conspiracist theory, they are already blooming like flowers, but Capitalism and the capitalists are unpredictable. They do not fool around with their bread and butter
Email received from a sympathiser in Canada who is not on this forum:
Quote:You have possibly seen this article by Paul Craig Roberts. I only got a little way into it and I clicked on the second link below and I have not yet finished reading Roberts. Apparently there are two articles, one following the other.]The article in Global Research, whose articles on all sorts of subjects are usually well researched, is an excellent documentation of the evolution of Ukraine and Russia's present relationship. At the end of this description the author describes the likelihood that Ukraine is being set up as an American base — leading to the possibility of outright war. [Roberts is more or less confirming this in his documentation.] From the political point-of-view Russia could not afford to have theFifth Fleet anchored in the Crimea and had to take it back. Will the threat of American troupes training with and supplying military equipment on their Ukraine border be acceptable to Russia?Perhaps when the Ukrainian population realises the terms of the World Bank loans, which will throw the country into even worse poverty, they may create another Maiden to throw this government out, but that could become a bloody civil war since the U.S. wouldn't want to let Ukraine go.Trevorhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39229.htmThe World Is Doomed By Western InsoucianceDon't expect to live much longerBy Paul Craig Robertshttp://www.globalresearch.ca/collapse-of-ukraine-government-prime-minister-yatsenyuk-resigns-amidst-pressures-exerted-by-the-imf/5393168Collapse of Ukraine Government: Prime Minister Yatsenyuk Resigns amidst Pressures Exerted by the IMF By Prof Michel Chossudovsky ____________________"If everyone demanded peace insteadof another television set, then there'dbe peace."1940 – 1980 – John LennonALB wrote:Email received from a sympathiser in Canada who is not on this forum:Quote:You have possibly seen this article by Paul Craig Roberts. I only got a little way into it and I clicked on the second link below and I have not yet finished reading Roberts. Apparently there are two articles, one following the other.]The article in Global Research, whose articles on all sorts of subjects are usually well researched, is an excellent documentation of the evolution of Ukraine and Russia's present relationship. At the end of this description the author describes the likelihood that Ukraine is being set up as an American base — leading to the possibility of outright war. [Roberts is more or less confirming this in his documentation.] From the political point-of-view Russia could not afford to have theFifth Fleet anchored in the Crimea and had to take it back. Will the threat of American troupes training with and supplying military equipment on their Ukraine border be acceptable to Russia?Perhaps when the Ukrainian population realises the terms of the World Bank loans, which will throw the country into even worse poverty, they may create another Maiden to throw this government out, but that could become a bloody civil war since the U.S. wouldn't want to let Ukraine go.Trevorhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39229.htmThe World Is Doomed By Western InsoucianceDon't expect to live much longerBy Paul Craig Robertshttp://www.globalresearch.ca/collapse-of-ukraine-government-prime-minister-yatsenyuk-resigns-amidst-pressures-exerted-by-the-imf/5393168Collapse of Ukraine Government: Prime Minister Yatsenyuk Resigns amidst Pressures Exerted by the IMF By Prof Michel Chossudovsky ____________________"If everyone demanded peace insteadof another television set, then there'dbe peace."1940 – 1980 – John LennonSometimes that news center has good articles, but they have a tendency to become pro-Russia, or anti-Israel, and many of their writers want to blame all the our problems on the zionists. Russia is also fighting for the same economical interests as the US, NATO, China, and the Ukranian capitalistsBesides trying to build a military base on Ukraine, the US along with Monsanto want to eliminate a contract that China signed to plant soybeans, and cottom on a large extension of land. All the major world powers have conflicting interest in that country, if the peoples from Ukraine do not wake up from their nationalist stand, they might ge trapped in the middle of an imperialist or a civil war.
What if there was a Russian-Ukrainian all out war, to follow on from Socialist Punks previous questionhttp://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/09/what-if-theres-real-war-ukraine
MH-17 so it was a missile but whose?http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34511973I don't think we will ever know for sure because the respective propagandists will decide by trial by media who to blame.
But we should differentiate between the Russian state and the Donbass rebels that were provided with the Buk (and most likely the crew) missile system to use against Ukrainian military aircraft. My original theory was that they mis-identified the MH-17 flight and shot it down by mistake. There was nothing to gain by deliberately bringing it down. But as i said i doubt the Western media will bother distinguishing rebels from Moscow…Putin will be directly accused. While the Russian media will keep placing the blame on Ukraine. But it does lays to rest the theory a Ukrainian plane shot MH-17 down.
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