Air Malaysia and Ukraine
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Just as an antidote to the BBC report that concentrates on the pro-Russians being viewed as the culprits while paying much less heed to the other theory, that it was a fuck-up by the Ukrainian military is this
Whodunnit?
I think this will be easily resolved from the debris and wreckage in due course.
As one of the papers pointed out yesterday this event is going to provide material for conspiracy theorists for years to come. On a more serious level, I recall the US shooting down an Iranian airliner in (I've just checked) 1988:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655What I don't recall is the media's concern at the time for the innocent travellers who were killed, eg no stories about the 66 children who perished, but then of course Iran was the enemy of the West whereas Russia is becoming again particularly over into whose sphere of influence Ukraine falls. And of course I don't think any Europeans were among the victims.
More recently in 2001, Ukraine shot down a civilian Russian plane killing 66. The Ukranian government denied it was a mistake made during a military exercise until eventually the proof was overwhelming. The SOYMB blog refers to the common practice of airlines flying over war zones as detours cost money. I have overflown Iraq when they were still busy trying to shoot down aircraft landing at Baghdad airport. Fortunately the militias didn't have the missiles capable hitting high altitude planes as the Air Malaysia was which appear as mere chemtrails in the sky.Unverified is the claim that the pro-Russian secessionists did capture a BUK AA system but at the time the Ukranians said it was made inoperative by their troops.These systems require quite sophisticated radar to track targets usually separate from the firing unit. Its not a matter of point and launch. At the moment, who did it is anybody's bet. Hopefully, it may act as a de-escalation of the situation there with Russians reining in their proxies and the Ukranian government temporarily holding back their offensive. Well, we can only hope.
You omitted to say that the American response to their shooting down of the Iran jet was to later award the commander who gave the order a medal for outstanding service rather than serve time in a military prison for incompetence…if, of course, it was a mistake, and not an act of provocation.
Quote:Two days after the Iranian passenger jet went down in flames, killing 290 people, the Times (7/5/88) editorialized that "while horrifying, it was nonetheless an accident." The editorial concluded, "The onus for avoiding such accidents in the future rests on civilian aircraft: avoid combat zones…The US government has destroyed many airplanes, and they have killed thousands of peoples in different parts of the world. The CIA placed dynamite in a commercial airplane from Cuba, and they have always denied what they did.The government of Israel has also shut down commercial airliners. While Obama was raising the hysteria for war, and talking about human rights, and democracy ( the same old shit that they have repeated for several decades ) many Palestinians were being killed by the Israeli army, and the US government support their actions Oliver North, Collin Powell, and Negroponte perpetrated many terrorists actions in South America and Central, and thousands of peoples were killed, and they were honored as heroes. The things is that the majority of the Americans believe everything that the press and the government tell them, and they always support wars.. Sometimes peoples suffer of historical amnesia. It is very nice to say, go and drop bombs in somebody else backyard, but do not drop any on top of my house
This is perfect timing for the US and Euro capitalist class. Both have been trying to increase sanctions on Russia.Coincidence?
I would hazard that the tragic events in Ukraine will also be advantageous to Putin. Putins power is dependent upon the support of various nationalist and big business power blocs and interests. He has achieved his original aim of securing the Crimea from the mess of the Ukrainian Maidan. But could not distance himself from the other Pro Russian nationalist movements without undermining his own support, their labelling as Terrorists, provides him with the opportunity to break off Russia's support.
Vin Maratty wrote:This is perfect timing for the US and Euro capitalist class. Both have been trying to increase sanctions on Russia.Coincidence?Economical sanctions against Japan provoked the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and it was the excuse that the US needed in order to start a war. The problem is that the old days of WW II have passed, and the new empires are armed with atomic bombs. This is a very dangerous situation. I have read the opinions of some idiots saying that the US must drop a bomb in Russia, but I image that they do not know that Russia also has 7000 atomic bombs in their arsenal. They do not have machetes and mochas like in Grenada
The western countries who voted for the allocation of the 2018 football world cup to Russia will probably be keeping very quiet about it for a while. By then, I suspect it will all be business as usual.
Just read the rather disturbing news that Ofcom is branching out into censorship and is investigating Russia Today TV for broadcasting "slanted" news about this incident and events in the Ukraine generally. Yes, we know that RT is controlled by the Russian government and so is interpreting events from the point of view of its interests. But then the BBC and the whole of the British media are putting over the point of view of the Western capitalist bloc which has a strategic interest in bringing the Ukraine into its sphere of influence that directly comes up against Russian capitalism's interest to have it in its sphere. Both sides are propaganda.The call has gone out to take RT off freeview, etc so that only Western propaganda is easily accessible but the advantage of world tv is that people can listen to both sides and make up their own mind. If Ofcom is going to ban propaganda it doesnot like it should change its name to f-ofcom.
For reference, the article in the Morning Star is by Jon Wight a Stalinist, and nothing to do with me.http://socialistunity.com/malaysian-passenger-aircraft-tragedy-responsibility-sought-prolong-conflict-eastern-ukraine/
They did it with the Iranian Press TV on the spurious grounds that its broadcasting policy was government controlled, banning it from all European tv satellites.We also see a lot of bias on the BBC about the Gaza attack…a very obvious reluctance to criticise the Israelis…So much for the smart bombs and the pin-point accuracy and selective targetting that even Kerry can't stomach the propaganda. Wasn't Robin Cook removed as foreign minister at the behest of the Israelis for his lack of 100% support for them? With the contesting theories, unlike the Syrian gas allegations where i was pretty sure it was not the Syrian government, i'm still uncertain, although i tend towards it was the breakaway militia rather than a Ukrainian false flag since the type of attack is too liable to be found out. A lot hoohaa been made out of the militia taking control of the crash site but they have a point…official crash technical investigators had not arrived…just political observers and journalists who are not qualified to judge anything. Seems the stories of looting has dried up so i wonder if those supposed credit cards were actually used…That would be easily verified by Visa or Mastercard…another atrocity tale to tell. Today's Russian info is a bit too much detail…throw in a lot to confuse…Do they say it was a Surface to Air missile that brought it down or an Air to Air from SU-25 flying in the vicinity? Nope. They toss in distractions for the conspiracy theorists. Smoke and mirrors. I read one "expert" doing the rounds of websites demanding the Americans say what their spy satellites saw…totally ignoring the fact that the Russians have their own over-flying…plus i expect several other nations. Ever since the Ukrain civil war started i have witnessed lies and disinformation from both sides. I suspect a lot of old Tankies are behind the pro-russian propaganda while we have some Trots sympathising with the Kiev regime.
alanjjohnstone wrote:Wasn't Robin Cook removed as foreign minister at the behest of the Israelis for his lack of 100% support for them?Don't know where you've heard that, ISTR he resigned rather than support the Iraq war (and the constant undermining of the "Ethical Foriegn policy") I think we need to be careful, there's a lot of wild rumours and exagerations about Israel, specifically that it punches above its weight in the British Foreign Office (which has traditionally be pro-Arab anyway, if Yes Minister is to be believed. The British establishment control British foriegn policy in the interest of the British ruling class.
You got your dates wrong. He wasn't foreign minister at the time of Iraq but Leader of the HouseFrom Wiki
Quote:In March 1998, a diplomatic rift ensued with Israel when Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu angrily cancelled a dinner with Cook, while Cook was visiting Israel and had demonstrated opposition to the expansion of Israeli settlements.I got the timing wrong too, it was 3 yrs after this incident he got dumped from FS but i'm sure they were happy to see him get fired. The ADL view on Cookhttp://archive.adl.org/international/eu-6-currentpeacemaking.html#.U85lk-OSyz4Your comment moreorless agrees with Chomsky's view on the US/Israel relationship.My real comment was the BBC…i think studies have confirmed this bias by them. I certainly have seen ample anecdotal evidence…"…although Israel disputes this"
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