A Xmas Message
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Regardless to what John L explained or John B claimed, I've read the one and listened to the other, scarily similar I think and no, I am not some half arsed hippy, nor a follower of whomsoever, just someone who can see similarities that exist. My tongue stays quite firmly in my mouth and I am not some arse licking sycophant, just a worker looking for solutions and I will use any advantage to rid myself and my class of this iniquitous system, NB.The ineluctable, Stevie C.
I sincerely hope you never took my response to JC and yourself personally, SC. I for one at my first conference to the confusion of who later became a member of Socialist Studies described myself as Marxist-Lennonist. (and to the dismay of many i often call myself an Anarcho-Marxist) Jonathan Chambers does raise a point that he objects to and what you seem to disagree with…motives.Should we declare the Pope a "socialist" as the other thread is discussing because of his "socialistic" sentiments? The soymb blog agrees with you that we will take advantage of every opportunity to explain the socialist case and it sympathetically quoted in length the latest Papal Bull…http://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/11/its-not-all-papal-bull.html We did however added important qualifying caveats to it.JL or his music likewise should not have unconditional support, not that i am accusing you of offering such. But some members are entitled to question the worth of Imagine and by associating too closely with one of his songs we may risk being associated with all of JL's views.I still believe Working Class Hero is a better and more socialist song but it hasn't got the sugar – coating to make it palatable to everybody.
Nar sos Alan, ar divvint tak nee offence marra. Left that all behind when ar got outa me pram. Ar divvint see JL as a paramount hero, nor div ar tak him as some numpty. Arl ar can tak from wat he sez is the lyrics to Imagine. norra bad ditty mate, and one we can use to our advantage. Nee one has ever acuused me ov bein someone who dotes after folk like Lennon, but yer gotta admit, he writes a reet good song. Why divvint we arl agree, that for some of wor, hes not wor cuppa tea an leave it at that and that we will use whativer we can, ter get wor goals accomplished!BTW ar think yer blogs reet canny, an I look forward ter reading it and learning from it too. I'd rather put a positive light on things and try ter mak the best we can ov what we've got, than piss on owt that we can possibly use to wor advantage. Positive, not negative is my thought.Some folk would rather be negative however, but yer nar, thats the way some folk like ter be. It's their choice, and thats their prerogative, and nee bother.Stevie C.BTW Alan, best wishes fer Newras marra.
It isn't about musical taste at all. Nor is it about being negative. It's about misconceptions. It is mistaken to think that this song has anything to do with socialism and it is mistaken to think that Lennon – apart from a brief flirtation with the left in the early seventies – was in any way a socialist..
Just to remind people of the lyrics to Imagine ……….”Imagine there’s no heavenIt’s easy if you tryNo hell below usAbove us only skyImagine all the people living for today Imagine there’s no countriesIt isn’t hard to doNothing to kill or die forAnd no religion tooImagine all the people living life in peace You, you may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only oneI hope some day you’ll join usAnd the world will be as one Imagine no possessionsI wonder if you canNo need for greed or hungerA brotherhood of manImagine all the people sharing all the world You, you may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only oneI hope some day you’ll join usAnd the world will live as one”………
i would say these verses put together express the socialist idea. No religion. No Private Property. No Nations. All described as the cause of war and discord. Just what exactly is anti-socialist about it? i am curious to know.In his own way and style JL expresses the same socialistic message as Burns has.
…..”It’s comin yet for a’ that, That man to man, the world, o’er Shall brithers be for a’ that.”……
But i make no claim for Burns being a socialist (we’ve been through Lennons leftist political pedigree on another thread) , just that Burns too put our aspiration into fine words for us to quote as an aid in our propaganda.///alanjjohnstone wrote:Darn that formatting when you cut and paste…but i am sure it is readable …justNow sorted..
Years ago I'm sure I heard a party member say that Lennon got hold of a copy of "Questions of the Day" and this was the inspiration for "Imagine". Is this complete shite?
It is hightly unlikely that the party could use 'Imagine' anyway, Yoko has not yet replied to my tweet .I used Imagine because I couldn't find an alternative song written by someone I know to be a socialist. In any case I really don't think using the song would associate us with Lennon's other polical beliefs. He has not become an 'ist' and is unlikey to.I agree with Alan, it is the socialist case in song ; right down to "the emancipation of the working class must be the work of the working class itself"
alanjjohnstone wrote:… JohnL himself has explained the background…it was spurred by a Yoko Ono poem.This may not be true, he may be defending copyright. He is unlikely to say 'well the idea came to me while stolling through Hyde Park……..'I think Ozymandias may be closer to the truthThe real vision of communism and how to achieve it is/was not that wide spread with all the distortion, he must have come across the SPGB.
I agree. He or Yoko cannot have come to these conclusions without first having come into contact with SPGB literature. How could this be possible otherwise? Obviously there was no Internet in those days and I believe there was a reprint of QOTD in 1969 or thereabouts. Can you imagine what a boon it would be if somehow this was rumour was corroborated. What a perfect calling card for introduction to the Capitalist Yoko Ono. "Dear Ms Ono. Remember us? We wrote the pamphlet which might have influenced one of the greatest songs ever written". Preposterous idea…or is it?
We are now in the realm of speculation and fantasy. There is no evidence whatsoever to claim Lennon was inspired by an SPGB pamphlet or even if he knew about the Party. Why on earth would he need to make up a story about being inspired by Yoko Ono's poem for copyright reasons. There is no legal issue involved by admitting you read the Communist Manifesto, Questions of the Day or whatever and got an idea for a song. Indeed why shouldn't he admit, "well the idea came to me as i was strolling through Hyde Park"…He could even have added "and i heard this guy at Speakers Corner from the SPGB and what he said struck a chord" But he didn't !!!I know some comrades who believe that Billy Connolly got his best material from listening to the humour of Dick and Vic on the speakers platform but i put that down to wishful thinking too.Once more i still think Working Class Hero lyrics are much better "Keep you doped with religion and sex and TVAnd you think you're so clever and classless and free"
I just read this. "plays a role in the movie Forrest Gump. Gump (played by Tom Hanks) appears on a talk show with Lennon, talking about a place where there are "no possessions" and "no religion." It's implied that Gump gave Lennon the idea for this song."
Another factoid In 1972 , about a year after writing Imagine "Flanked by Yoko and an indulgent Leon Wildes (his lawyer), John announced the creation of a 'conceptual' country called Nutopia with 'no land, no boundaries, no passports, only people.' Its national flag was a Kleenex, and anyone who heard of its existence automatically became both a citizen and an ambassador. As ambassadors-in-chief, he and Yoko claimed diplomatic immunity from normal immigration procedure and legal process, and the prerogative to stay in America for as long as Nutopia's national interests should warrant. On the service door of their Dakota apartment kitchen appeared a plaque reading NUTOPIAN EMBASSY."
'Nutopia' had no leadership! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutopia
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