A few questions regarding economics
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Young Master Smeet wrote:
"Worker one is paid the value of average socially necessary labour time that goes into creating and reproducing her ability to work. That value will be less than the value added by worker one to the food."Wait. what? The value produced by worker 1 will be less than the value produced by worker 1?"Worker two, does not add value: but without worker two, the restaurateur cannot get any payment unless the food reaches the tables. Worker two is paid the value of average socially necessary labour time that goes into creating and reproducing his ability to work."Is worker 2 not creating any value?"Workers two and three are not exploiting worker one."That I understand.
Sympo wrote:Wait. what? The value produced by worker 1 will be less than the value produced by worker 1?No, the value paid to worker 1 will be less than the value they add to the product (food).
Sympo wrote:"Worker two, does not add value: but without worker two, the restaurateur cannot get any payment unless the food reaches the tables. Worker two is paid the value of average socially necessary labour time that goes into creating and reproducing his ability to work."Is worker 2 not creating any value?From the point of view of the capitalist, worker 2 doesn't create anything, doesn't produce anything. Without worker 2 the goods cannot come to market, but the only operation 2 does is move a plate load of value from one place to another.
If workers at the productive level do not add any additional, or aggregated value, the capitalists and capitalism will go into bankruptcy. A factory, for example. will become a charity center, therefore, we can say: Long live capialism !!! Capitalism is known without any romantic definitions as the system of profits
Young Master Smeet wrote:"No, the value paid to worker 1 will be less than the value they add to the product (food)."Oh, okay."From the point of view of the capitalist, worker 2 doesn't create anything, doesn't produce anything. Without worker 2 the goods cannot come to market, but the only operation 2 does is move a plate load of value from one place to another."I understand that the capitalist needs worker 2 in order to realize his profit, but I still don't see how worker 2 is being exploited.
Worker 2 is compelled under threat of poverty to work for a capitalist, and the capital;ist then uses the worker (or, more accuraqtely, uses the worker's ability to work, their alienated labour power). At the very minimum, worker 2 cannot use their labour power for themself.
The real definition of poverty is being a wage slave, or wave slavery,. We can look for all kind of justifications and excuses, look for al l kind of definitions, or even to defend our own master ( This is what Franz Fannon called the Colonial mentality ) but the reality is, that we are all poor, and we all exploited by the capitalist class, and the only freedom that we have is to be able to select our own exploiters. The best solution is to place all of them on a rocket and send them to another place, and to overthrow ( with votes, or with gun if they resist ) their outdated exploitative system
What makes Capitalism a system of slavery? The fact that capitalists must pay people less than the value they create or the fact that people have to have jobs where surplus value is extracted from the workers by the capitalists in order for the system to work?Am I perhaps creating a false dichotomy or whatever?
Sympo wrote:What makes Capitalism a system of slavery? The fact that capitalists must pay people less than the value they create or the fact that people have to have jobs where surplus value is extracted from the workers by the capitalists in order for the system to work?Am I perhaps creating a false dichotomy or whatever?Both. They complement each other.
Sympo wrote:What makes Capitalism a system of slavery?In the days of chattel slavery in Ancient Rome and the antebellum South in the USA, not all slaves were productive but they were slaves nevertheless. Capitalism is a system of slavery because the majority, excluded from ownership of means of production, are economically dependent on the minority capitalist owning class, forced by economic necessity to sell their working skills to an employer for a wage or salary to get a living. The whole working class is enslaved, not to individuals as chattel slaves were, but to the whole capitalist class. They can escape one master but must find some master. It's wage-slavery.
Sympo wrote:What makes Capitalism a system of slavery? The fact that capitalists must pay people less than the value they create or the fact that people have to have jobs where surplus value is extracted from the workers by the capitalists in order for the system to work?Am I perhaps creating a false dichotomy or whatever?At the present time there are more slaves that in prior epochs, and poverty is wage slavery. The difference between the classical slave and the modern slave is, that we are allowed to select our own masters, and we do not have any chains in our feet, they have brainwashed us to believe that we are free, and we have rights, but we have just passed from one system of slavery into another system of slavery known as Wage slavery, or hired slavery as Emma Goldman said.In the old days the slave wanted their masters to die, to kill them, or to be killed, now, some slaves support their own masters and defend their own system of slavery., and some slaves go to war to protect their interests, and they die defending somebody else interests, it is a mental and physical slavery, this is what Franz Fannon called colonial mentality.The Chattel slave was transferred, endorsed, or sold as a piece of property without hi/her consent, was used as collateral for a bank loan, now, we sell ourselves voluntarily, and we must sell our labor force in exchange for another commodity. Just the form has changedWith the introduction of new machinery, and modern method of production, we produce more in less times, and we are able to produce our salary in a few seconds, and they say that they are paying our salary according to the hours that we have worked, if that is true why we are not allowed to leave within a few minutes ? We have to stay, otherwise, they will laid off the workers, and will replace them with others slaves from the army of the unemployed.. Capitalism will always l need unemploymentThe capitalists are just a bunch of thieves, like any other thieves, who are stealing the labors of the working class, surplus value is unpaid labor, the thing is that they are never taking to jail, the workers are taking to jail, therefore, in this society we have legal crime and illegal crimes. That robbery is justified and protected by the so called legal system, but if a workers steal a chicken to eat because he is hungry he or she will be taken to jail. The Mafioso are little children compared to the big corporationsWage slavery is a term created by women who walked up on the so called wild cats strikes because they considered themselves as slaves, and now in our times some slaves get offended because they are considered as slaves, in some places we have slaves driving a car, carrying a credit card, universities credentals, or owning a house, but at the point of production they must obey their masters, and the falsely called middle class are wage slaves tooThe only alternative that we have is, to overthrow the capitalists, the wage system, and the system of profits, and establish our own system known as socialism
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