A Blueprint for a New Party
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I don't know where this goes, but I have an algorythim to legally win any election you want. It's a bit of social engineering with a digital currenty solution to motivating supporters, that I discovered as a corrallary to my Unviersal Values Exchange System Protocols that I've been working on as a method of relacing money with something more perfect that could serve communism better than the capital goods based dollar. Anyway, here's a tweet that would have given us bernie sanders for president if only it had been tweeted 6 months before the democratic primary. this one tweet has the ability to exponentially multiply supporter turnout and engagement. as well as covert undecided and even opositional views to the cause of Bernie Sanders. Um, it would also work for republicans or democrats or socialist who want to win an election. So Here's a peek at how I could have won the election for Bernier Sanders as president, if only I'd thought of it sooner.
Quote:I will give 1 hour of my time to anyone who votes. Just send me a photo of your ballot stubs as proof. You can vote any way you want and you can’t tell me how you vote. I’m just rewarding you for your efforts to vote because I want you to vote and I want to prove it with an hour of my time. Tell me what you want me to do for 1 hour and I’ll upload photo proof that I did what you asked. See my public history and comments and ratings for my past 1 hour promises to others. They’ve asked me to do some strange things with my 1 hour like quack like a duck while reading marx on a video cam channel, but whatever you want is cool with me. I’d like to spend an hour planting a tree to picking up letter in a park if it’s nearby or something that helps the public good. Tweet your photo and request to #Bernie.coin.time.value.exchange.offer.133215342 I’ll reply with a link and estimated completion time for your 1 hour hour and you can come back and check the status and see how many favors I’ve done lately and how far you are in the list. Also, I might trade my 1 hour favor with others who owe me time favors too, if that gets it done for you faster. If you’re nearby one of my friends I could do some grocery shopping for you or something like that. If you vote on the best 1 hour favor someone ask me to do you can win prizes and more hours of me doing whatever you want (within reason). For legal tax and voting law reasons there can be no exchange of property of monetary value, so don’t ask for money or ask me to write you a check or make any commitments with my 1 hour of service to you. Public Notice: This exchange offer is valid only for registered democrats or independents. Additionally, to qualify you must have at least 1 tweet in your twitter history favorable to Bernie Sanders and include a link to it. (this is legal a way to prove that they likely voted for Bernie Sanders in the Primary). In your tweet, you must state your voter registration, link to your Bernie tweet, and a photo of your ballot entry for your entry into our contest to be valid.p.s. sorry if this is off topic. I'm not sure where something general and revolutionary would best fit in your discussions choices. Please let me know where I should post this sort of information on your Board if this is the wrong place. Sorry for the inconvenience I'm giving mods permission to move this for me in advance and my thanks for a PM telling me where they move it too.
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:I don't know where this goes, but I have an algorythim to legally win any election you want. It's a bit of social engineering with a digital currenty solution to motivating supporters, that I discovered as a corrallary to my Unviersal Values Exchange System Protocols that I've been working on as a method of relacing money with something more perfect that could serve communism better than the capital goods based dollar. Anyway, here's a tweet that would have given us bernie sanders for president if only it had been tweeted 6 months before the democratic primary. this one tweet has the ability to exponentially multiply supporter turnout and engagement. as well as covert undecided and even opositional views to the cause of Bernie Sanders. Um, it would also work for republicans or democrats or socialist who want to win an election. So Here's a peek at how I could have won the election for Bernier Sanders as president, if only I'd thought of it sooner.Quote:I will give 1 hour of my time to anyone who votes. Just send me a photo of your ballot stubs as proof. You can vote any way you want and you can’t tell me how you vote. I’m just rewarding you for your efforts to vote because I want you to vote and I want to prove it with an hour of my time. Tell me what you want me to do for 1 hour and I’ll upload photo proof that I did what you asked. See my public history and comments and ratings for my past 1 hour promises to others. They’ve asked me to do some strange things with my 1 hour like quack like a duck while reading marx on a video cam channel, but whatever you want is cool with me. I’d like to spend an hour planting a tree to picking up letter in a park if it’s nearby or something that helps the public good. Tweet your photo and request to #Bernie.coin.time.value.exchange.offer.133215342 I’ll reply with a link and estimated completion time for your 1 hour hour and you can come back and check the status and see how many favors I’ve done lately and how far you are in the list. Also, I might trade my 1 hour favor with others who owe me time favors too, if that gets it done for you faster. If you’re nearby one of my friends I could do some grocery shopping for you or something like that. If you vote on the best 1 hour favor someone ask me to do you can win prizes and more hours of me doing whatever you want (within reason). For legal tax and voting law reasons there can be no exchange of property of monetary value, so don’t ask for money or ask me to write you a check or make any commitments with my 1 hour of service to you. Public Notice: This exchange offer is valid only for registered democrats or independents. Additionally, to qualify you must have at least 1 tweet in your twitter history favorable to Bernie Sanders and include a link to it. (this is legal a way to prove that they likely voted for Bernie Sanders in the Primary). In your tweet, you must state your voter registration, link to your Bernie tweet, and a photo of your ballot entry for your entry into our contest to be valid.p.s. sorry if this is off topic. I'm not sure where something general and revolutionary would best fit in your discussions choices. Please let me know where I should post this sort of information on your Board if this is the wrong place. Sorry for the inconvenience I'm giving mods permission to move this for me in advance and my thanks for a PM telling me where they move it too.
The price of LSD must have hit an all time low in San Francisco following Trump's election
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:I don't know where this goes, but I have an algorythim to legally win any election you want. It's a bit of social engineering with a digital currenty solution to motivating supporters, that I discovered as a corrallary to my Unviersal Values Exchange System Protocols that I've been working on as a method of relacing money with something more perfect that could serve communism better than the capital goods based dollar. Anyway, here's a tweet that would have given us bernie sanders for president if only it had been tweeted 6 months before the democratic primary. this one tweet has the ability to exponentially multiply supporter turnout and engagement. as well as covert undecided and even opositional views to the cause of Bernie Sanders. Um, it would also work for republicans or democrats or socialist who want to win an election. So Here's a peek at how I could have won the election for Bernier Sanders as president, if only I'd thought of it sooner.Quote:I will give 1 hour of my time to anyone who votes. Just send me a photo of your ballot stubs as proof. You can vote any way you want and you can’t tell me how you vote. I’m just rewarding you for your efforts to vote because I want you to vote and I want to prove it with an hour of my time. Tell me what you want me to do for 1 hour and I’ll upload photo proof that I did what you asked. See my public history and comments and ratings for my past 1 hour promises to others. They’ve asked me to do some strange things with my 1 hour like quack like a duck while reading marx on a video cam channel, but whatever you want is cool with me. I’d like to spend an hour planting a tree to picking up letter in a park if it’s nearby or something that helps the public good. Tweet your photo and request to #Bernie.coin.time.value.exchange.offer.133215342 I’ll reply with a link and estimated completion time for your 1 hour hour and you can come back and check the status and see how many favors I’ve done lately and how far you are in the list. Also, I might trade my 1 hour favor with others who owe me time favors too, if that gets it done for you faster. If you’re nearby one of my friends I could do some grocery shopping for you or something like that. If you vote on the best 1 hour favor someone ask me to do you can win prizes and more hours of me doing whatever you want (within reason). For legal tax and voting law reasons there can be no exchange of property of monetary value, so don’t ask for money or ask me to write you a check or make any commitments with my 1 hour of service to you. Public Notice: This exchange offer is valid only for registered democrats or independents. Additionally, to qualify you must have at least 1 tweet in your twitter history favorable to Bernie Sanders and include a link to it. (this is legal a way to prove that they likely voted for Bernie Sanders in the Primary). In your tweet, you must state your voter registration, link to your Bernie tweet, and a photo of your ballot entry for your entry into our contest to be valid.p.s. sorry if this is off topic. I'm not sure where something general and revolutionary would best fit in your discussions choices. Please let me know where I should post this sort of information on your Board if this is the wrong place. Sorry for the inconvenience I'm giving mods permission to move this for me in advance and my thanks for a PM telling me where they move it too.
The best and only category that we have is the Trash Bin.
Steve from San Francisco seems to be suggesting (digital) labour time vouchers now, albeit only redeemable against the presidential candidate. First it was postcards, then utopian communities, now labour time vouchers. What century are you living in because it seems like you've time travelled from the nineteenth century socialist movement, a hybrid Marxist-owenism. Lbird, take note – this is why we need Engels.
mcolome1 wrote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:I don't know where this goes, but I have an algorythim to legally win any election you want. It's a bit of social engineering with a digital currenty solution to motivating supporters, that I discovered as a corrallary to my Unviersal Values Exchange System Protocols that I've been working on as a method of relacing money with something more perfect that could serve communism better than the capital goods based dollar. Anyway, here's a tweet that would have given us bernie sanders for president if only it had been tweeted 6 months before the democratic primary. this one tweet has the ability to exponentially multiply supporter turnout and engagement. as well as covert undecided and even opositional views to the cause of Bernie Sanders. Um, it would also work for republicans or democrats or socialist who want to win an election. So Here's a peek at how I could have won the election for Bernier Sanders as president, if only I'd thought of it sooner.Quote:I will give 1 hour of my time to anyone who votes. Just send me a photo of your ballot stubs as proof. You can vote any way you want and you can’t tell me how you vote. I’m just rewarding you for your efforts to vote because I want you to vote and I want to prove it with an hour of my time. Tell me what you want me to do for 1 hour and I’ll upload photo proof that I did what you asked. See my public history and comments and ratings for my past 1 hour promises to others. They’ve asked me to do some strange things with my 1 hour like quack like a duck while reading marx on a video cam channel, but whatever you want is cool with me. I’d like to spend an hour planting a tree to picking up letter in a park if it’s nearby or something that helps the public good. Tweet your photo and request to #Bernie.coin.time.value.exchange.offer.133215342 I’ll reply with a link and estimated completion time for your 1 hour hour and you can come back and check the status and see how many favors I’ve done lately and how far you are in the list. Also, I might trade my 1 hour favor with others who owe me time favors too, if that gets it done for you faster. If you’re nearby one of my friends I could do some grocery shopping for you or something like that. If you vote on the best 1 hour favor someone ask me to do you can win prizes and more hours of me doing whatever you want (within reason). For legal tax and voting law reasons there can be no exchange of property of monetary value, so don’t ask for money or ask me to write you a check or make any commitments with my 1 hour of service to you. Public Notice: This exchange offer is valid only for registered democrats or independents. Additionally, to qualify you must have at least 1 tweet in your twitter history favorable to Bernie Sanders and include a link to it. (this is legal a way to prove that they likely voted for Bernie Sanders in the Primary). In your tweet, you must state your voter registration, link to your Bernie tweet, and a photo of your ballot entry for your entry into our contest to be valid.p.s. sorry if this is off topic. I'm not sure where something general and revolutionary would best fit in your discussions choices. Please let me know where I should post this sort of information on your Board if this is the wrong place. Sorry for the inconvenience I'm giving mods permission to move this for me in advance and my thanks for a PM telling me where they move it too.
The best and only category that we have is the Trash Bin.
@Moclme1,I find it deeply ironic that you, a True Socialist, most like practice the majority of your personal exchange agreements in the capitalist default mode of cash for product in your daily life. You're insistence in following the social norms that deplore exchange agreement not endorsed and approved of by capitalism money system is probably the clearest example of the worldview backfire effect, that I've ever seen in my experience research. And while you practice capitalism every day you refuse to practice socialist forms of exchange here with me now. John Gault has really gotten you twisted into doing his bidding.
jondwhite wrote:Steve from San Francisco seems to be suggesting (digital) labour time vouchers now, albeit only redeemable against the presidential candidate. First it was postcards, then utopian communities, now labour time vouchers. What century are you living in because it seems like you've time travelled from the nineteenth century socialist movement, a hybrid Marxist-owenism. Lbird, take note – this is why we need Engels.Sorry, a lot of that went over my head. i don't know Lbird or Engels. Many here would argue persuasively I don't know marxist owenism. I wouild agree with those criticizms of me. The questions I'm more interested in hearing answered are.1) is it legal in a capitalist society to do this and would it work effectively2) is it contrary communism, or preferably which of Engels or Marxist oenism, or whatever school of thought you understand so much better than me would say that this exchange offer is in violation of their principles and would not be allowed or part of their world (I'm guessing Marxist owenism would approve of this exchange offers, but Lbird and Engels would disaprove of this exchange offer). Please correct me if my crude understanding of Owenism and Engels is incorrect and if you could add just one sentence as to why, for my summary understanding of the ideas of each, then that would be great and is mostly the information I'm looking to find out from this forum. Can you break it down for me like this. . . these schools of thought related to socialism would not approve of your exchange offer: Engels, ???, ???these schools of thought related to socialism would approve of my exchange offer: Marxist Owenism, ???, ???
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:jondwhite wrote:Steve from San Francisco seems to be suggesting (digital) labour time vouchers now, albeit only redeemable against the presidential candidate. First it was postcards, then utopian communities, now labour time vouchers. What century are you living in because it seems like you've time travelled from the nineteenth century socialist movement, a hybrid Marxist-owenism. Lbird, take note – this is why we need Engels.Sorry, a lot of that went over my head. i don't know Lbird or Engels. Many here would argue persuasively I don't know marxist owenism. I wouild agree with those criticizms of me. The questions I'm more interested in hearing answered are.1) is it legal in a capitalist society to do this and would it work effectively2) is it contrary communism, or preferably which of Engels or Marxist oenism, or whatever school of thought you understand so much better than me would say that this exchange offer is in violation of their principles and would not be allowed or part of their world (I'm guessing Marxist owenism would approve of this exchange offers, but Lbird and Engels would disaprove of this exchange offer). Please correct me if my crude understanding of Owenism and Engels is incorrect and if you could add just one sentence as to why, for my summary understanding of the ideas of each, then that would be great and is mostly the information I'm looking to find out from this forum. Can you break it down for me like this. . . these schools of thought related to socialism would not approve of your exchange offer: Engels, ???, ???these schools of thought related to socialism would approve of my exchange offer: Marxist Owenism, ???, ???
Marxism and Owenism are two body of ideas that can not be combinedhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1970s/1971/no-801-may-1971/robert-owen-utopian-socialisthttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2008/no-1252-december-2008/robert-owenpaternalist-utopianAren't you an experience research specialist ? By now you should know who was Robert Owen, what were the Utopian Socialists, What Engels wrote about the Utopian socialists, what is value of exchange in a capitalist society, and if the law of value will exist in a socialist, society, there would not exist any exchange or economy. . We have given you sufficient ammunition to start and intellectual war inside of your mind http://www.wspus.org/in-depth/the-alternative-to-capitalism/
mcolome1 wrote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:jondwhite wrote:Steve from San Francisco seems to be suggesting (digital) labour time vouchers now, albeit only redeemable against the presidential candidate. First it was postcards, then utopian communities, now labour time vouchers. What century are you living in because it seems like you've time travelled from the nineteenth century socialist movement, a hybrid Marxist-owenism. Lbird, take note – this is why we need Engels.Sorry, a lot of that went over my head. i don't know Lbird or Engels. Many here would argue persuasively I don't know marxist owenism. I wouild agree with those criticizms of me. The questions I'm more interested in hearing answered are.1) is it legal in a capitalist society to do this and would it work effectively2) is it contrary communism, or preferably which of Engels or Marxist oenism, or whatever school of thought you understand so much better than me would say that this exchange offer is in violation of their principles and would not be allowed or part of their world (I'm guessing Marxist owenism would approve of this exchange offers, but Lbird and Engels would disaprove of this exchange offer). Please correct me if my crude understanding of Owenism and Engels is incorrect and if you could add just one sentence as to why, for my summary understanding of the ideas of each, then that would be great and is mostly the information I'm looking to find out from this forum. Can you break it down for me like this. . . these schools of thought related to socialism would not approve of your exchange offer: Engels, ???, ???these schools of thought related to socialism would approve of my exchange offer: Marxist Owenism, ???, ???
Marxism and Owenism are two body of ideas that can not be combinedhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1970s/1971/no-801-may-1971/robert-owen-utopian-socialisthttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2008/no-1252-december-2008/robert-owenpaternalist-utopianAren't you an experience research specialist ? By now you should know who was Robert Owen, what were the Utopian Socialists, What Engels wrote about the Utopian socialists, what is value of exchange in a capitalist society, and if the law of value will exist in a socialist, society, there would not exist any exchange or economy. . We have given you sufficient ammunition to start and intellectual war inside of your mind http://www.wspus.org/in-depth/the-alternative-to-capitalism/
Thanks for the links. Especially the alernative to capitalism link, which I read. The alternative to capitalism argument makes much of the same argument and reasoning as I've come to via my independent research. When I use words like "exchange" I'm not using those words in the capitalist sense as you seem intent on believing. Here's some key phrase from the article that I already discoverd as emergent properties or corralary ideas arrising from principles of my universal exchange system protocols.1) "Since capitalism is a worldwide class society and exchange economy, it is clear that the exploitation-less alternative to capitalism would have to be a classless world society without exchange." – well, sort of I agree. This has exchange, but it's not exploitative. people still do favors for each other and put objects in the hands of others and that's what I mean by "exchange". 2) "In a classless society every member is in a position to take part, on equal terms with every other member, in deciding how the means of production should be used. Every member of society is socially equal, standing in exactly the same relationship to the means of production as every other member. Similarly, every member of society has access to the fruits of production on an equal basis." yes. by this definition, my exchange system protocols are classless. further, they can be written as limited or scoped to the scale of specefic people or class of people.3) "When we refer to the society based on common ownership, generally we shall use the term socialism, though we have no objection to others using the term communism since for us these terms mean exactly the same and are interchangeable." yep, for me too. Also I don't much distinguish between different branches of socialism or communism because my exchange system allows individuals to choose their own localized definition and rules for their exchanges. So it allows Socialist to have their own socialist economy or communist to have their own communist economy and then it provides a common shared mechanism for converting "value" between the two economies and philosophies. By "value" I mean any concrete object, but also my universal exchange system protocols support much more abstract definitions of value such as "good intentions" or friendly attitude in addition to "equivalent to some weight of gold" value judgements and exchanges. So a lot of why I don't distinguish between marx and engels is because they're largely both stuck in the assumption that there is only ONE economy with one set of rules that everyone must live under and a system of government and leadership to enforce rules. I've done away with all that and individuals can now have their own economy with their own rules and it don't need no government or police to make it work. 4) "What it does mean, and this has been one of the major themes of this book, is the establishment of some form of state capitalism whose internal mode of operation is conditioned by the fact that it has to compete in a world market context against other capitals." – here's an example of irrelevant information. with individual economies the relationship is complementary and there's an infinite number of individual economies and exchange relationships. So they are not in competition, except perhaps for peoples time and peoples attention. time and attention of people is a value that can be exchange in my Unversal Values Exchange System Protocols very easily. BUT these are complex negotations with trust and measuring failures under a capitalist economy exchange system of dollars for capital goods when it tries to define a trust verification and enforcement mechanism to cover non-capital based value. 5) "Since today capitalism is worldwide, the society which replaces capitalism can only be worldwide. The only socialism possible today is world socialism. No more than capitalism can socialism exist in one country. So the common ownership of socialism is the common ownership of the world, of its natural and industrial resources, by the whole of humanity. Socialism can only be a universal society in which all that is in and on the earth has become the common heritage of all humankind, and in which the division of the world into states has given way to a world without frontiers but with a democratic world administration." – yes, my universal exchange system protocols are worldwide accessible. To qualify that it requires google docs or some centralized method for establishing repution and reporting exchange satisfaction as a feedback voting mechanism. Google docs work great for that and are free and worldwide accessible. In some countries and places without the ability to use google docs, the exchange protocol system can be done with pen and paper but it rapidly becomes to big and information dense to sort through easily. We can use a buffered or delayed information transfer like banks use where local exchanges are reconciled locally and then bulk exchange records are uploaded to the world wide web as needed to prevent congestion of exchange offers. So non-internet connected people may experience delays in getting disputes resolved and in checking the reputation and satisfaction from non-local exchange offers. Exchange offers can be endorsed by vairous organization that give their stamp of approval to the exchange as a way of bulk managing reputation and exchange partner history of satisfaction or dissatisfaction. 6) "Socialism, being based on the common ownership of the means of production by all members of society, is not an exchange economy. Production would no longer be carried on for sale with a view to profit as under capitalism. In fact, production would not be carried on for sale at all. Production for sale would be a nonsense since common ownership of the means of production means that what is produced is commonly owned by society as soon as it is produced. The question of selling just cannot arise because, as an act of exchange, this could only take place between separate owners. Yet separate owners of parts of the social product are precisely what would not, and could not exist in a society where the means of production were owned in common." – Sort of. by the capitalism definition of "exchange" then this is not that. But the means to production are not only capital goods. There are intellectual means for producing intellectual value. There is romantic means for producing romatic value. there an infinite number of means for producing an infinite number of values. Exchanging those values is what my universal values exchange system protocol does. As far as "production" it's not really meaningfull in the capitalist sense except as just one of many exchange value graphs. But most exchanges would not involve capital good exchanges. So my universal values exchange system protocols are agnostic on this topic. Actually the exchange protocols that I've written are agnostic on most topics and they don't discriminate against capital exchanges vs intellectual exchanges, vs intertainment exchanges of value.
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:1) "Since capitalism is a worldwide class society and exchange economy, it is clear that the exploitation-less alternative to capitalism would have to be a classless world society without exchange." – well, sort of I agree. This has exchange, but it's not exploitative. people still do favors for each other and put objects in the hands of others and that's what I mean by "exchange".No he doesn't agree at all. Of course people will continue to do things for each other after capitalism has been ended but he wants to make things worse than they are under capitalism by applying the capitalist principle of equal exchange even to the favours people do for each other.PS I wish people would do what I've just done. Trim his posts when commenting (it's easy: you keep the [ quote] at the beginning and the [ /quote] at the end and delete the passages you're not commenting on). Otherwise his ramblings are up there twice and is a waste of space (but not of time if you don't bother to re-read them)
ALB wrote:PS I wish people would do what I've just done. Trim his posts when commenting (it's easy: you keep the [ quote] at the beginning and the [ /quote] at the end and delete the passages you're not commenting on). Otherwise his ramblings are up there twice and is a waste of space (but not of time if you don't bother to re-read them)Better still, just ignore her posts; they're boring, repetitive and often infringe Forum Rule #6. Other users have received suspensions for less.
Reminder: 6. Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’). Do not post an excessive number of threads, posts, or private messages within a limited period of time (‘flooding’).
gnome wrote:ALB wrote:PS I wish people would do what I've just done. Trim his posts when commenting (it's easy: you keep the [ quote] at the beginning and the [ /quote] at the end and delete the passages you're not commenting on). Otherwise his ramblings are up there twice and is a waste of space (but not of time if you don't bother to re-read them)Better still, just ignore her posts; they're boring, repetitive and often infringe Forum Rule #6. Other users have received suspensions for less.
@ALB,you've made the same criticizm of me on many posts and in many topics and you've violated repeatedly rule #6 in my opinion. I've generally ignored you're attempts at starting a "shut up" conflict. I think you're dangerously close to getting a suspension for you're harrasment. Why don't you stick to critiquing ideas and avoid the personal attacks as much as possible? That's what I do.Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:Why don't you stick to critiquing ideas and avoid the personal attacks as much as possible? That's what I do.Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:the biggest trick capitalist ever pulled on you, Mcolmee1, was getting you to agree to their values. They've tricked you good and they created the term money crank to discredit economic theories like those of marx. You've taking up the job of capitalist in defending capitalism and call it socialism. Well, you're wrong and a traitor to the poeple and you don't even know it because you've been bought and paid for by the capitalist disinformation system.ALB wrote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:Why don't you stick to critiquing ideas and avoid the personal attacks as much as possible? That's what I do.Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:the biggest trick capitalist ever pulled on you, Mcolmee1, was getting you to agree to their values. They've tricked you good and they created the term money crank to discredit economic theories like those of marx. You've taking up the job of capitalist in defending capitalism and call it socialism. Well, you're wrong and a traitor to the poeple and you don't even know it because you've been bought and paid for by the capitalist disinformation system.Sigh, Yes, it's true. Sometimes when dealing with crying babies you have to cry loudly back at them. The trick to distinguish between a crying baby and an adult is count the number of times the make personal attacks on people and cry and whine. Mature adults generally do like me and ignore the whining and personal attacts for a while and then if that doesn't work, they reluctantly engage in a shouting and crying match because they can't just separate from the baby without the baby suffering and they care about the baby.
ALB wrote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:1) "Since capitalism is a worldwide class society and exchange economy, it is clear that the exploitation-less alternative to capitalism would have to be a classless world society without exchange." – well, sort of I agree. This has exchange, but it's not exploitative. people still do favors for each other and put objects in the hands of others and that's what I mean by "exchange".No he doesn't agree at all. Of course people will continue to do things for each other after capitalism has been ended but he wants to make things worse than they are under capitalism by applying the capitalist principle of equal exchange even to the favours people do for each other.
Indeed, exactly so. His problem is that he does not seem to understand the difference between exchange in the looser or wider sense – as when one exchanges pleasantries or ideas – and exchange in the narrow economic sense referring to quid pro quo market exchanges. His obsession with quantification – "if you spend 20 minute reading what I have to say I will spend 20 minutes reading what you have to say" – suggests to me that Steve from San Francisco has quite a way to go before breaking with a capitalist mindset. He still has not understood the point that socialism is about generalised reciprocity, not quid pro exchanges. Frankly speaking my eyes just glaze over at the mention of such wacky nonsense as his " universal exchange protocols" or whatever it is that Steve is tiresomely peddling. It seems so utterly contrived and forced, This is not how humans normally interact outside of the market context and the thought of submitting our every action to some sort of convoluted system of balancing to ensure exchange equivalence strikes me as quite appalling and a recipe for a bureaucratic nightmareSo thanks but no thanks, Steve. Socialists would not really be interested in this scheme of yours and you are wasting your time with this sales ptich of yours
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