5G Roll-out
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I am beginning to get quite a lot of stuff in my feed on the projected 5 G roll-out – the new generation of wireless mobile networks which will facilitate the much talked about “internet-of-things” and significantly speed up communication. From what I understand it will massively increase the number of masts needed as well as the levels of radio frequency radiation.
Some of the stuff Ive read is positively alarming . Here’s something I got yesterday on the effects of a 5 G test in Holland – 200=300 birds falling out of the sky in The Hague. Imagine that!
There seems to be mounting evidence of potential ill effects on human health too.
According to another website
Public attention about 5G has been focused on the plans of telecom companies to install millions of small cell towers on electric utility poles, on public buildings and schools, on bus stop shelters, in public parks, and anywhere they want in national parks and on federally owned land.
In local urban communities there would be a cell tower approximately every 500 feet along every street.
As bad as these small cell towers might seem from the standpoint of constant exposure to radio frequency (RF) radiation in close proximity to the source, perhaps an even more alarming prospect will be the beaming of millimeter length microwaves at the earth from thousands of new communication satellites.
The FCC gave approval to SpaceX on March 29, 2018, to launch 4,425 satellites into low orbit around the Earth. [1]
The total number of satellites that is expected to be put into low and high orbit by several companies will be 20,000 satellites.I am not sufficiently knowledgeable to make a judgement as to how strong are the grounds for concern about this particular technology but I wonder if others here, better informed than me, might like to comment?
It might be also be useful to provide some background information (plus useful links) on this subject and the commercial rivalry between China and the US to become the global power in the use of this technology
I agree with your concerns. Amazingly, in conversation instigated by me with a number of people, so few have heard little about the possible/probable negative effects. Last week Global Research had a number of articles on this topic, well worth reading. This link will be useful for anyone wanting more information:
Robbo, you are such a sucker for conspiracy theories ! The name itself of your source – “Truth Revolution” – should have been a warning that it was completely unreliable(Have a look at their current home page : https://thetruthrevolution.net/how-feminism-tricked-women-into-promescuity-giving-up-their-values/ )
“Global Research” is not quite as bad but is still a conspiracy site, run by the notorious conspiracy theorist, Michel Chossudovsky:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky#Centre_for_Research_on_Globalization
This article should persuade you that you don’t need your tinfoil hat:
Nonsense about the Health Effects of Electromagnetic Radiation
What is worrying is that other members are going along with this nonsense. It is a discredit to our party which has always prided itself on taking a rational, scientific attitude.
Yes, I wouldn’t even click on conspiracy sites like Global Research. And it’s true that a lot of the anti-5G discussion is coming from the utter nutcases of the online world like Chossudovsky, Max Igan, Ian R. Crane and David Icke. That said, concern about the health effects of 5G has been raised by well-qualified (so far as I can see, anyway) scientists like Martin Pall of Washington State University and doctors like Sharon Goldberg. The ‘precautionary principle’ should prevail until the technology has been proven to be fully safe. It’s worth pointing out that legitimate concerns over the safety of 3G/4G have been raised by Devra Davis and other scientists. I’ll be very happy to be proven wrong on this, but it seems there are grounds for concern here; certainly, one article on SkepDoc.info isn’t enough to convince me otherwise.
Hi Adam,
Well, I did qualify my position on the matter by saying that
“I am not sufficiently knowledgeable to make a judgement as to how strong are the grounds for concern about this particular technology but I wonder if others here, better informed than me, might like to comment?”
I wouldn’t say I am a “sucker” for conspiracy theories (you are wrongly assuming I accept them because I bring them up for discussion) – though I am fascinated by them and yes I was aware that the name of the website in question – “Truth Revolution” – might give one good reason for being cautious/ suspicious. But all the same one must be equally wary of just dismissing something as simply a “conspiracy theory” when it might well be presenting an inconvenient truth, albeit tucked away amongst a lot of over the top rhetoric. There can be exaggeration being used on either side of this debate and the link you gave, I think demonstrates this.
The writer, Harrieta Hall, is quite right to criticise Helke Ferrie’s article for its sensationalism e.g. Don’t use cell phones, Don’t watch TV , dont use microwaves etc etc – but I think she goes too far the other way in dismissing the potentially harmful effects of electromagnetic radiation about which there is fairly credible scientific evidence e.g. leukaemia clusters in children.
See for example this
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/08/science/debate-continues-on-hazards-of-electromagnetic-waves.html
There is also this, though you might regard the Environmental Health Trust as a conspiracy site (but check out some of the links)
Regarding 5G the concern is that it represents a very substantial increase in the densification of radiation with an exponential increase in the number of masts as well as thousands of satellites beaming waves to earth. The expression “tipping point” springs to mind
What about the incident in Holland where hundreds of birds suddenly died reputedly in connection with a 5G experiment – which is what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. The Snopes website which exposes fraud exposed this incident as a fraud.
But the person who seems to have made the original claim has responded thus.
I agree it smacks a bit of conspiracy theory talk but the important point is are the central facts correct and if so how would one explain them? I would be interested to hear counter explanations. What would be yours?
None of them are safe including 2G. The actual fight between the USA and China is not based on health issue, it is based on market expansion and world hegemony, both of them do not care about health issue. There are many conspiracy theory about 5G on internet, but medical researches do indicate that 2G, 3G, 4G, and 5G are not safe for our health
Robbo, it didn’t take me long to find on the internet two fake-news-busting sites exposing that story about those birds dying in the Netherlands: from a 5G test:
https://www.thequint.com/news/webqoof/5g-radiation-causes-bird-death-in-netherlands-fake-news
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/5g-cellular-test-birds/
As to the science of the effects, a comrade who’s forgotten his password to here has drawn attention to this:
and, on the geopo9litical aspect mentioned by Marcos, to this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/science/5g-phone-safety-health-russia.html
Hi Alb
Having now read the Snopes article I’m now inclined to agree that the claims about death of 200-300 starlings as a result of a 5G experiment do look very dodgy indeed. If you look at the link to Kuhle’s article he claims to have rebutted the Snopes article and that a colleague of his had debunked Snopes completely. I dont quite see how this is the case. It seems there was a time limited 5G experiment of 1 day but this wouldn’t account for the deaths of the starlings over several days
So, fair enough, we can probably safely dismiss this particular case as unwarranted speculation. However, I am far less reassured when it comes to the more general claims about the health impacts of 5G. As I said there is credible mainstream scientific evidence of a correlation between electromagnetic radiation and leukaemia clusters for example in the case of power lines. There was a mega study recently (Ill try to fish out the link) that collated the results of a large number of studies and came to this conclusion. There are also other factors involved such as airborne pollutants (especially in the vicinity of motorways) that can complicate the picture when dispersed .
As I understand the point about pylons for example is that you have to live pretty close to one to be potentially at risk; the effect falls off sharply the further you move away from the radiation source
The worrying thing about 5G is , as I said, that “represents a very substantial increase in the densification of radiation with an exponential increase in the number of masts as well as thousands of satellites beaming waves to earth”
I dont think it is unreasonable to be concerned
“What is worrying is that other members are going along with this nonsense. It is a discredit to our party which has always prided itself on taking a rational, scientific attitude.”
I for one wasn’t “going along with this nonsense” but simply provided additional links from the Global Research site, which admittedly doesn’t have the finest reputation.
These scare stories have been with us ever since cellular phones were first developed and became widely used; in fact I acquired a first generation Motorola 5000x in 1988 (which weighed far more than a house brick) and have had mobile devices of one sort or another ever since. Some may disagree but I’m not aware that my daily use of them spanning more than 30 years has had any noticeably ill-effects. 🙄
Robbo, this factsheet from the US National Cancer Institute should allay your residual worries about catching leukemia from living near an electricity pylon or using your mobile or computer or microwave or watching TV:
It also mentions the meta study you are looking for.
What all this means is that we can accept 5G as a technology that can be used in socialism, another technology advance which (like electricity distribution has done), makes a socialist world of abundance even more practicable.
There is not homogeneity of opinion within the natural and social scientific world. I am subscribed to some medical journals and have taken courses on immunology and embryology and they have considered that the radiation emitted by celular phones produced pathological conditions on human beings. There are also indication that peoples sleeping with electrical blankets and sleeping close to radio are also exposed to obtain heart conditions. Many children with Leukemia have been developed through chemotherapy treatment for other types of Neoplasia
Sabine Hossenfelder video on the roll-out of 5G (All you need to know to understand 5G)
Short summary.
- Energy — 5G photons are far too weak to damage our chemical bonds.
They don’t induce cancer in the manner of high-energy UV photons. - Health — 5G power attenuates over hundreds of metres, and so transmission towers are closely packed.
Any adverse effect of long-term exposure remains an open question.
Anti-5G necklace shown to be radioactive
- Energy — 5G photons are far too weak to damage our chemical bonds.
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