100% reserve banking
November 2024 › Forums › General discussion › 100% reserve banking
- This topic has 346 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 11 months ago by PartisanZ.
-
AuthorPosts
-
April 16, 2017 at 11:52 pm #86991AnonymousInactiveQuote:So it's kind of like if couldn't exchange M1 for M2 or M0 because the laws and rules about the use of M0 were actually part of the money and inseperable from the money legally. We have a similar case in that A google doc can be made…
Who cares? Laws and Rules, necessary in capitalism just won't apply in free access commonly owned production for use post-capitalist socialist society.
April 17, 2017 at 12:14 am #86992AnonymousGuestMatt wrote:Quote:So it's kind of like if couldn't exchange M1 for M2 or M0 because the laws and rules about the use of M0 were actually part of the money and inseperable from the money legally. We have a similar case in that A google doc can be made…Who cares? Laws and Rules, necessary in capitalism just won't apply in free access commonly owned production for use post-capitalist socialist society.
er, I don't remember marx saying laws and rules won't be necessary. Can you tell me which branch of socialism agrees with that statement and which ones don't. Is that engels who says rules and laws won't be necesary, and if you have a link to the quote then I'll take my time to read it. but mostly form what I've read so far, these early thinkers about socialism didn't have these concerns or thoughts and never solved some of the problems I will mention below. So just a link to the complete words of marx isn't very usefull to me because I don't have the time to read it even though it's free and not owned by anyone. If you send me a link to a specefic part or a specefic crique of socialism that supports your claim, then that would be usable by me. Also, some of the laws and rules I mentioned are not "laws and rules" as you understand them, IMO. I'm including natural laws in this like the natural law or rule that says you can't drive the same tractor over two different fields at the same time. That rule comes from physics and I expect it to operate the same under capitalism or socialism which must both follow the rules of physics. Other rules are economical or ergonomic in nature, like you can't pick twice as many apples in an hour using the same picking technology and pickers. There's a lot of information science type rules about voting when you have the requirment for socialism that EVERYTHING can be voted on by anyone at any time. The information science rule on that topic is that you only have a certain amount of attention and time to read things and vote on them, so can't feasibly vote on every single topic in the world and will have to manage your time to vote on the ones most relevant to yourself. Unless you're arguing socialism will have people with an infinitite ability to vote on millions of topics in a single hour, then you have an unsolved problem in socialism that needs something more to solve it than just socialism. I'm interested in exploring what those other somethigns need to be. If I agree that there are no laws or rules in socialism, then what about pdf's? are there no PDF in socialism? I've heard the argument that socialism requires capitalism to produce the means of abundance? if you agree with that then lets look at the PDF vs google doc and see which one produces the means of abundance better?
April 17, 2017 at 1:03 pm #86993AnonymousInactiveSteve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:[If I agree that there are no laws or rules in socialism, then what about pdf's? are there no PDF in socialism? I've heard the argument that socialism requires capitalism to produce the means of abundance? if you agree with that then lets look at the PDF vs google doc and see which one produces the means of abundance better?We'll use whatever is being used, sophisticated crude or otherwise..You are wasting our time on trivia.
April 17, 2017 at 8:37 pm #86994AnonymousInactiveMatt wrote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:[If I agree that there are no laws or rules in socialism, then what about pdf's? are there no PDF in socialism? I've heard the argument that socialism requires capitalism to produce the means of abundance? if you agree with that then lets look at the PDF vs google doc and see which one produces the means of abundance better?We'll use whatever is being used, sophisticated crude or otherwise..You are wasting our time on trivia.
MattYou are wasting your time with a person with a child mentality accostumed to read comics books, and playing with comnputers and video games, personally, I do not care if the Socialist Party publish its materials on toilet papers, as long as the message get to workers.Socialism is a serious political theory, so serious than in some places many peoples have been killed or taken to prisons. This is not office work, or buisness administration, or yuppies fantasiesI do not remember how many times we used mimeographer ( ink or alcohol ) to print newspapers, leafters and articles because those were the resources that we had, but the importance thing was the message. What we are doing at the present time is much better than any fancy PDF , or the ideas of any computer fanatics, or ipad boy.I do remember when the Soviet Union had their Progress Publishing House , Tirana Publishing Center, and the Chinese had their international Publishing House, most of the works of Marx and Engels were printed using cheap papers or newspaper paper, and the cost was only 0.15 or 0.25 cents a pamphlet, we never cared about the paper, we cared about the content to record it in our brainsSocialism is for political mature peoples with mature conceptions, for peoples who want to break away from the bourgeoise ideology, the play ground is the proper place for little children, and this forum can not be used for trivias or childish ideas. A person who in two years has not learned the most basic things about socialism, he or she is just wasting time, or does not want to learn new ideas.In a few weeks I was ready to become a member of the WSM, my grandfather was an old man who never used a computer, and never heard anything about PDF, he only had a shortwave radio, he knew that the Soviet Union, Cuba and China were not socialist countries, and he knew that this society was a piece of shit, and WWII was fight among criminals, and he did not care the winner, and some inteletelctuals with doctorate degree do not know that, they are being sodomized by capitalism, and they love capitalismThe main objective of this forum, or any forum of the World Socialist Movement, is to propagate, and educate about socialism, and to understand that capitalism must be replaced by a new society. If we do not learn anything from one of the oldest school and university of socialism known as the Socialist Party we will never learn from any other place. Concrete is concrete, and illusion is ilusion
May 3, 2017 at 12:03 am #86995alanjjohnstoneKeymasterSome may find this Steve Keen book of interest on the theme “Bank Originated Money and Debt” – BOMDReviewed herehttp://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/02/the-economics-of-the-future/
May 3, 2017 at 2:31 am #86996twcParticipantThe moral solution to amoral capitalism…Keen, lost deep inside his Minskian models of the capitalist economy — in abstraction from the amoral world of practical capitalist profiteering — demands that the banks make his models, which reveal the amorality, work morally in the interest of capitalism.He tells the banks to kickstart capitalism by gifting everyone money to pay off “debt” — the essential capitalist necessity — or suffer the stigma of “profligacy” — the essential capitalist virtue.Here we can view the folly of pursuing a purely phenomenological modelling of the capitalist economy, and passionately believing in the rules that make the model work in abstraction from the human necessity of reproducing society under capitalist social relations of ownership and control of society’s productive forces.And then, emerging from his phenomenological model into the world beyond it, and pontificating on human conditions such as the “morality” of debt repayment, and not its essential necessity for capitalism and his model of it.Keen forgets that it is precisely the amoral capitalist class that demands its debts be settled — under compulsion of capital to actuate itself — in order that the capitalist may remain the personification of his vital bloodsteam: capital.God, and the aggrieved investor, bless moral Keen…
Quote:As a transition from todays debt stagnation, Keen suggests that the central banks create a lump sum to put into everyone’s account. Debtors would be required to use their gift to pay down the debt. Non-debtors would keep the transfer payment – so as not to let demagogic political opponents accuse this plan of rewarding the profligate.If this solution is not taken, debtors will continue to lumber on under debt and tax conditions where only about a third of their nominal wages are available to spend on the goods and services that labor produces. The circular flow between producers and consumers will shrink – being siphoned off by debt service and government taxes to bail out bankers instead of their victims.This should be what today’s politics is all about. It should be the politics of the future. But that requires an Economics of the Future – that is, Reality Economics.May 3, 2017 at 7:06 am #86997moderator1Participanttwc wrote:The moral solution to amoral capitalism…Keen, lost deep inside his Minskian models of the capitalist economy — in abstraction from the amoral world of practical capitalist profiteering — demands that the banks make his models, which reveal the amorality, work morally in the interest of capitalism.He tells the banks to kickstart capitalism by gifting everyone money to pay off “debt” — the essential capitalist necessity — or suffer the stigma of “profligacy” — the essential capitalist virtue.Here we can view the folly of pursuing a purely phenomenological modelling of the capitalist economy, and passionately believing in the rules that make the model work in abstraction from the human necessity of reproducing society under capitalist social relations of ownership and control of society’s productive forces.And then, emerging from his phenomenological model into the world beyond it, and pontificating on human conditions such as the “morality” of debt repayment, and not its essential necessity for capitalism and his model of it.Keen forgets that it is precisely the amoral capitalist class that demands its debts be settled — under compulsion of capital to actuate itself — in order that the capitalist may remain the personification of his vital bloodsteam: capital.God, and the aggrieved investor, bless moral Keen…Quote:As a transition from todays debt stagnation, Keen suggests that the central banks create a lump sum to put into everyone’s account. Debtors would be required to use their gift to pay down the debt. Non-debtors would keep the transfer payment – so as not to let demagogic political opponents accuse this plan of rewarding the profligate.If this solution is not taken, debtors will continue to lumber on under debt and tax conditions where only about a third of their nominal wages are available to spend on the goods and services that labor produces. The circular flow between producers and consumers will shrink – being siphoned off by debt service and government taxes to bail out bankers instead of their victims.This should be what today’s politics is all about. It should be the politics of the future. But that requires an Economics of the Future – that is, Reality Economics.You can join the debate here: https://www.facebook.com/CounterPunchOrg/
May 19, 2017 at 6:42 am #86998robbo203ParticipantI am currently reading Paul's Mason's book, "Post Capitalism: A Guide to our Future". In it, he makes a number of startling claims such as that "banks have always lent out more cash than there was in the safe" (p.11) and since 1971 no longer have to contend with legal limits in the form of a fractional reserve. What are the facts and figures to substantiate or repudiate this claim? I find it quite difficult to peice together all the different elements in Mason' sweeping survey of post war economic developments (particularly since the advent of neo-liberalism) such as the role of fiat money, financalisation and QE – though Im still on chapter 1. Has anyone read the book and come to any conclusions particularly regarding his comments on banking
May 19, 2017 at 7:51 am #86999ALBKeymasterrobbo203 wrote:I am currently reading Paul's Mason's book, "Post Capitalism: A Guide to our Future". In it, he makes a number of startling claims such as that "banks have always lent out more cash than there was in the safe" (p.11) and since 1971 no longer have to contend with legal limits in the form of a fractional reserve. What are the facts and figures to substantiate or repudiate this claim?That statement of his is ambiguous. It could mean that banks can lend out more cash than has been deposited with them or that they have borrowed. In which case it would be wrong. Or it could mean that the amount of money banks lend is more (much more) than what they choose to keep as cash. Which would be true but trite. Figures can be produced to show the latter but that's what banks do — re-lend money lent to them; they are not just safe deposits,It is true that in Britain there are no longer any legal or regulatory limits on the amount of money banks must hold as cash. Banks naturally want to re-lend as much of what they have as they safely can because lending brings in money as interest while cash in vaults doesn't. It is up to those running a bank to make a judgement, based on experience, as to what is safe.
May 21, 2017 at 2:59 pm #87000Dave BParticipantProto Marxism ,funny money and fictitious capital “From Demetrius” 37-41AD L. ANNAEUS SENECA,ON BENEFITS By Seneca BOOK VII. ……is brought out of the same dark pits as gold and silver…………. Thus far we have dealt with actual substances; but some forms of wealth deceive our eyes and minds alike. I see there letters of credit, promissory notes, and bonds, empty phantoms of property, ghosts of sick Avarice, with which she deceives our minds, which delight in unreal fancies; for what are these things, and what are interest, and account books, and usury, except the names of unnatural developments of human covetousness? I might complain of nature for not having hidden gold and silver deeper, for not having laid over it a weight too heavy to be removed: but what are your documents, your sale of time [????????????], your blood-sucking twelve per cent. interest? these are evils which we owe to our own will, which flow merely from our perverted habit, having nothing about them which can be seen or handled, mere dreams of empty avarice. Wretched is he who can take pleasure in the size of the audit book of his estate, in great tracts of land cultivated by slaves in chains, in huge flocks and herds which require provinces and kingdoms for their pasture ground, in a household of servants, more in number than some of the most warlike nations, or in a private house whose extent surpasses that of a large city! After he has carefully reviewed all his wealth, in what it is invested, and on what it is spent, and has rendered himself proud by the thoughts of it,… http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3794/3794-h/3794-h.htm
June 7, 2017 at 7:37 am #87001alanjjohnstoneKeymasterGoldman Sachs's $128 billion in overall depositsJPMorgan with $1.4 trillion in deposits.Goldman hopes increasing its deposit base will help it boost profits if it can find ways to lend them profitably. The bank is looking to make further inroads into lending broadly across wealth management and investment banking, as businesses like trading struggle to generate the type of returns they once did.http://www.reuters.com/article/us-goldman-sachs-rates-idUSKBN18Y09Y
June 9, 2017 at 10:35 am #87002Young Master SmeetModeratorIn his current book, Yanis Varoufakis outlines some very intersting goings on with Greek finances.
Varoufakis wrote:Here's how our two bankers – lets call them Aris and Zorba – did it.Aris' family founded offshore companies, to which Zorba agreed secretly to lend without guarantees the millions that Aris' bank needed. Why such generosity towards a competitor? Because Aris and Zorba were sitting under the same proverbial oak. Desperate to raise money for his own bank, Zorba agreed the loan on condition that Aris' bank lent a similar amount to Zorba's family's offshore outfits. Aris' and Zorba's families then used money from their offshore accounts to buy new shares in their own banks, thus fulfilling the regulator's requirements that new capital be raised and thereby qualifying for the real money that the poor taxpayer was borrowing from the troika….they ended up owing nothing to anyone. Both sets of loans … were written off soon after being granted and transferred to the banks's long list of non-performing loans.He adds in a footnote:
Varoufakis wrote:An even more outrageous trick was employed: in addition to millions from Zorba's bank, the Aris family's offshore companies also borrowed millions from Aris' own bank. These loans were also written off as unserviceable or non-performing, or were used to buy office space that was resold to other parties only to be leased back by the bank or sold to it at inflated prices. The newly conjured up funds, or 'profits' would be used to buy new shares in the bank, keeping up the pretence that investors were injecting private capital into them.That's the banks, creating money through real fraud. Next, let's look at what the European Central Bank got up to.
Varoufakis wrote:The ECB granted Greece's bankrupt banks the right to issue new IOUs with a face value of €5.2 billion – worthless peices of paper, given the banks' coffers were empty.As no sane person would pay money to buy these IOUs, the bankers took them to the finance minister..who stamped on them the bankrupt state's copper cbottomed guarantee – a really useless gesture, since no bankrupt entity (the state) van meaningfully guarantee the IOUS of another bankrupt entity (the banks).The bankers took the worthless IOUS to the central bank of Greece, which is, of course, a branch of the ECB, posting them as collateral for new loans.The Eurogroup gave the green light to the ECB to allow its Greek branch to accept these IOUs as collateral and, in exchange, give the banks real cash equivalant to 70% of the IOUs face value (a little more than €3.5 billion).Meanwhile, the ECB and Eurogroups gave [Greece's] finance ministry the green light to issue new treasury bills with a face value of €3.5 billion – IOUs issued by the state, which, of course, no investor in their right mind would touch given the emptiness of the state's coffers.The bankers then spent the €3.5 billion they had received from the central bank of Greece – in fact from the ECB itself – when they pawned their worthless IOUs in order to buy the state's worthless IOUs.Lastly, the Greek government took this €3.5 billion and used it to pay off ….the ECB!You neeed to read that a few times, it's a method to allow Greece to not default on a debt it owed to the ECB.
June 20, 2017 at 10:00 am #87003Young Master SmeetModeratorhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40338220Barclays staff charged over the funds they got from Qatar to avoid a government bailout.
BBC wrote:The first charge, conspiracy to commit fraud, relates to "advisory" fees paid to Qatar. The second – "unlawful assistance" – could be more serious.It relates to a £2bn loan advanced to Qatar after the fundraisings were negotiated – the implication being that there was a money-go-round at work – Barclays was handing Qatar some of the money it was using to support the British bank.SOunds very similar to the allegations made by Varoufakis about Greece and Aris and Zorba.
June 23, 2017 at 9:57 pm #87004alanjjohnstoneKeymasterhttp://thenational.scot/news/15366130.New_report_outlines_how_indy_Scotland_could_comfortably_raise__40bn_to_set_up_a_new_currency/If banks can create money with the stroke of a computer key-board, how does a new country creates its new currency money?
Quote:Ryan calculates Scotland could raise $40bn through a combination of transactions, including claiming a 10 per cent share of UK reserves of $163bn – ie, $16.3bn.In addition to that $16.3bn, a further $13bn, he says, could be raised via a foreign exchange swap with the Bank of England to aid the mutual stability of the economies of Scotland and of the rest of the UK.Another $8.8bn could be raised via the issue of a Euro bond and the £4.5bn-worth of hard sterling held by a new Scottish central bank could be used to buy the remaining amount.October 28, 2017 at 1:18 am #87005alanjjohnstoneKeymasterBeen a while since this thread has had any contributions but the topics is still active in the real world.Steve Keen interviewhttp://www.dw.com/en/can-we-avoid-another-financial-crisis/a-41111841
Quote:Where are financial crises likely to arise next?First, it's important to understand that bank lending creates new credit and new debt in equal measure, by keystroke entry in double-entry spreadsheets. The British and German central banks have both published papers and videos in recent years explaining how this works. Banks don't on-lend deposits they take in from depositors. Banks create money — and debt — whenever they extend credit to a client, whether it's by means of credit cards, mortgages, or business loans.In most countries, the bulk of credit creation is mortgage lending. And when bigger and bigger mortgage loans are made in an environment of fast increases in house prices, i.e. in countries or cities where there's a major real estate bubble inflating, like Sydney in Australia or Vancouver in Canada, you get bigger and bigger private debt mountains.When real estate prices stop rising, banks reduce the scope of their mortgage lending, and debtors start trying to pay down their debts. They cut back all their other expenditures and focus on trying to keep up with their monthly debt obligations. This causes an economic slowdown, reducing incomes further, and so on, in a self-reinforcing spiral. This is how financial crises arise. Mortgage overlending and real-estate bubbles, in particular, are very often the main cause. So, look for crises to happen in any country which has excessive private debt, and especially countries which have big mortgage bubbles that are nearing their peak, but have no big trade surpluses in their favor to offset the growing domestic debt burden. An environment of low commodity prices combined with already-inflated real estate bubbles is a nasty combination, and both Australia and Canada are at risk for that reason. -
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.