100% reserve banking

December 2024 Forums General discussion 100% reserve banking

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  • #86856
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    Not had time to fully read or understand the article but i am sure others may find it of interest. It does repeat what we now believe to be a myth about fractional reserves and goldsmiths. The update is that the fed is manipulating the gold price because the banks no longer can cover their reserves under fractional rules.  The Fed and gold :- http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37413.htm

     All these false conspiracy  theories have been created by the money creationists

    #86857
    ALB
    Keymaster

    In any event, the gold reserves held by central banks has nothing to do with fractional reserve banking properly so-called nor with backing the currency the government or the central bank issues. That was abandoned a long time ago.The term "fractional reserve banking" was originally coined to describe the policy, pursued by governments in the 1950s and 1960s, of trying to control the amount of bank lending by varying the proportion ("fraction") of their assets that they were required to hold as cash and/or some other liquid asset ("reserves"). This was later abandoned in favour of trying to control bank lending by manipulating interest rates instead. Now they are trying to control it by imposing limits on what banks can lend by only allowing them to borrow money to re-lend up to a proportion of their own capital. Which of course is a recognition of the fact that this is what banks do — borrow money to relend, not create it out of nothing as the currency cranks claim

    #86858
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    ALB wrote:
    In any event, the gold reserves held by central banks has nothing to do with fractional reserve banking properly so-called nor with backing the currency the government or the central bank issues. That was abandoned a long time ago.The term "fractional reserve banking" was originally coined to describe the policy, pursued by governments in the 1950s and 1960s, of trying to control the amount of bank lending by varying the proportion ("fraction") of their assets that they were required to hold as cash and/or some other liquid asset ("reserves"). This was later abandoned in favour of trying to control bank lending by manipulating interest rates instead. Now they are trying to control it by imposing limits on what banks can lend by only allowing them to borrow money to re-lend up to a proportion of their own capital. Which of course is a recognition of the fact that this is what banks do — borrow money to relend, not create it out of nothing as the currency cranks claim

     The government of Venezuela repatriated  all their gold deposits ( more than 11 bn )  from different banks.  and placed them on the National Reserve Bank of Venezuela, and despite that,  the national currency has been  devaluated,( 73% )  and there is a hyper inflation of 53 %, along with a high rate of unemployment. There is a large scarcity of dollars on their national reserve

    #86860
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Positive Money are trumpeting a claim that a couple of articles in the latest issue of the Bank of England's Quarterly Bulletin back up their theory, in particular the second, which argues:

    Quote:
    banks do not act simply as intermediaries, lending out deposits that savers place with them

    They seem to have ignored the word "simply" as well as this passage in the article which explains that banks must have or get the funds to back up their lending, even if these don't all come from deposits that savers place with them:

    Quote:
    Figure 1 showed how, for the aggregate banking sector, loans are initially created with matching deposits. But that does not mean that any given individual bank can freely lend and create money without limit. That is because banks have to be able to lend profitably in a competitive market, and ensure that they adequately manage the risks associated with making loans. Banks receive interest payments on their assets, such as loans, but they also generally have to pay interest on their liabilities, such as savings accounts. A bank’s business model relies on receiving a higher interest rate on the loans (or other assets) than the rate it pays out on its deposits (or other liabilities). (…) The commercial bank uses the difference, or spread, between the expected return on their assets and liabilities to cover its operating costs and to make profits In order to make extra loans, an individual bank will typically have to lower its loan rates relative to its competitors to induce households and companies to borrow more. And once it has made the loan it may well ‘lose’ the deposits it has created to those competing banks. Both of these factors affect the profitability of making a loan for an individual bank and influence how much borrowing takes place.  (…) Banks therefore try to attract or retain additional liabilities to accompany their new loans. In practice other banks would also be making new loans and creating new deposits, so one way they can do this is to try and attract some of those newly created deposits. In a competitive banking sector, that may involve increasing the rate they offer to households on their savings accounts. By attracting new deposits, the bank can increase its lending without running down its reserves, as shown in the third row of Figure 2Alternatively, a bank can borrow from other banks or attract other forms of liabilities, at least temporarily. But whether through deposits or other liabilities, the bank would need to make sure it was attracting and retaining some kind of funds in order to keep expanding lending.(emphasis added)

    This is a good enough description of how modern banks work, though it is not clear that "attract" is the right word to describe how the "other liabilities" are acquired since these will be what the bank itself borrows, "liabilities" being what the bank owes others (as opposed to what others owe them, or "assets"). So, from this angle, banks are "intermediaries" between those who lend them money and those they lend money to, even if it is not as "simple" as that.    

    #86861
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Graeber in the Guardian seiing on the reporthttp://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/18/truth-money-iou-bank-of-england-austerity The actual report can be read herehttp://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf “A bank’s business model relies on receiving a higher interest rate on the loans (or other assets) than the rate it pays out on its deposits (or other liabilities). Interest rates on both banks’ assets and liabilities depend on the policy rate set by the Bank of England, which acts as the ultimate constraint on money creation…But whether through deposits or other liabilities, the bank would need to make sure it was attracting and retaining some kind of funds in order to keep expanding lending…Competition for loans and deposits, and the desire to make a profit, therefore limit money creation by banks. Banks also need to manage the risks associated with making new loans. One way in which they do this is by making sure that they attract relatively stable deposits to match their newloans, that is, deposits that are unlikely or unable to be withdrawn in large amounts. ”


     —And of course they overlook the explanation that QE was not free money given to banks or that it is used for commercial lending – “the new reserves are not mechanically multiplied up into new loans and new deposits as predicted by the money multiplier theory. QE boosts broad money without directly leading to, or requiring, an increase in lending.” Those banks can use them to make payments to each other, but they cannot ‘lend’ them on to consumers in the economy, who do not hold reserves accounts. When banks make additional loans they are matched by extra deposits — the amount of reserves does not change.”

    #86862
    ALB
    Keymaster
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    Graeber in the Guardian seiing on the reporthttp://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/18/truth-money-iou-bank-of-england-austerity

    Graeber overstates his case that bank loans are essentially IOUs. They can be seen as this from one point of view but this doesn't mean that banks can issue IOUs at will without being able to cover them. A bank which did this would soon go under, as the Bank of England article explicitly explains.He distorts what the article says when he writes:

    Quote:
    What this means is that the real limit on the amount of money in circulation is not how much the central bank is willing to lend, but how much government, firms, and ordinary citizens, are willing to borrow.

    Most of the article is devoted to describing in detail the various limits to banks' lending (including having to find new outside deposits or loans from other banks and others to remain profitable) which are well below what people want to borrow.

    Quote:
    Just consider what might happen if mortgage holders realised the money the bank lent them is not, really, the life savings of some thrifty pensioner, but something the bank just whisked into existence through its possession of a magic wand which we, the public, handed over to it.

    This is pure currency crank nonsense. What a bank or building society lends to someone to buy a house is covered by assets which really exist, whether from "the life savings of some thrifty pensioners" or from what the financial institution has itself borrowed at a lower rate of interest. Graeber needs to explain what banks do do with savings people deposit with them if they don't re-lend them. The Bank of England article says:

    Quote:
    banks do not act simply as intermediaries, lending out deposits savers place with them

    Graeber seems to have deleted the word "simply".

    #86863
    DJP
    Participant

    Graeber's 'Debt' book is thoroughly demolished in the latest issue of Aufheben. I guess it will be online next  year..

    #86859
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Can you not offer us a little taster in the way of an excerpt from it? Knowing Aufheben i expect it is extremely wordy and i don't expect you to transcribe it…just a little extract to highlight it will do. 

    #86864
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    A switch of emphasis in this video , i think. Nations are no longer using the entral money to increase the money-supply for its operation but borrowing on the commercial bank market to fund its services. This is what  is causing the increase of money creation. In French with subtitles  https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P8fDLyXXUxM

    #86865
    ALB
    Keymaster

    This is just common or garden currency crankism, as even Positive Money would recognise. Article 123  of the Lisbon Treaty is the favorite bugbear of French currency cranks after one of them, Etienne Chouard, made a big issue of it in the referendum in France on the Treaty in 2005 where he played a prominent part in the Non campaign.The Article merely confirms the long established practice where governments borrow (to finance their spending over and above what they raise through taxation) via central banks selling bonds to commercial banks and other financial institutions (which of course is not "money creation" as it assumes that the money to buy the bonds already exists) .What it bans is central banks simply creating money and giving it to the government to spend, even if this takes the form of the central bank lending the government the money. But this hasn't happened in developed capitalist countries for ages and is only practised these days in countries like Zimbabwe and certain South American banana republics (and even oil ones like Venezuela). The currency cranks want this to be practised here too. It's not just them of course but all leftwing reformists. They ought to be careful about what they wish for.

    #86866
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    A more common sense down-to-earth explanation on how banking works and money "created".Quote:"Investment banks make enormous profits by skimming pennies off the top every time financial instruments are issued, traded, or retired. They may make mere fractions of a penny. But all those fractions add up.The big banks can double or triple these gains by working with money that they borrow overnight at very low short-term interest rates. They also lend these funds out to companies for a few days or weeks at a time on a variety of financial markets. Again, the pennies add up.The result is that investment banks are assembly-line money machines. They practically print money. They make profits that are inconceivable in any other line of business. ….. Contrary to popular perception, the bank bailouts didn't just give money to the banks. It lent money to the banks….When a recession hits and tax revenues decline, governments stay in business by borrowing heavily. Investment banks that levy a financial transactions tax must be able to do the same – or collapse into bankruptcy. That is how a recession turns into a financial crisis. Recessions occur in the real economy….The 2008 financial crisis came almost a year after the beginning of the recession in 2007. The financial crisis didn't cause the recession. The recession caused the financial crisis….'http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/22882-sixteen-for-16-number-7-make-the-bankers-squealOf course we can question the aurhors solutions..a regulated financial industry, but no need for any credit creation narratives to explain the real world of banking…its all about borrowing and lending.

    #86867
    moderator1
    Participant

    Reminder:  Rule 6. Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’). Do not post an excessive number of threads, posts, or private messages within a limited period of time (‘flooding’).

    #86869
    twc
    Participant

    Sorry, I screwed up this post.

    #86870
    twc
    Participant

    Marx’s Response to Dr PriceIf capitalists seek compound interest, why doesn’t Dr Price’s formula totally overwhelm us all?Marx responds¹  “The process of accumulation of capital may be conceived [if you really want to conceive it this way] as an accumulation of compound interest [only] in the sense that—the portion of profit (surplus-value) which is reconverted into capital, i.e. which serves to absorb more surplus-labour, may be called interest.  But …” [Marx reveals the processes that limit the accumulation of capital.  As a scientist, he must draw upon his underlying theory, as developed in Capital Volume 1.  There he explains interest as one of several forms of surplus-value.  Consequently, the special form interest must also, like general surplus-value itself, ultimately depend upon the division of the social working day into necessary and surplus labour times.  This is Marx’s crucial theoretical insight.  The following explanation is therefore a crucial test of Marx’s theory.²]“Aside from all incidental interference, a large part of available capital is constantly more or less depreciated in the course of the reproduction process, because the value of commodities is not determined by the labour-time originally expended in their production, but by the labour-time expended in their reproduction, and this decreases continually owing to the development of the social productivity of labour.”“On a higher level of social productivity, for this reason, all available capital appears to be the result of a relatively short period of reproduction, instead of [the result of] a long process of accumulation of capital.”“As demonstrated in Part III of this book³, the rate of profit decreases in proportion to the mounting accumulation of capital and the correspondingly increasing productivity of social labour, which is expressed precisely in the relative and progressive decrease of the variable as compared to the constant portion of capital.”“To produce the same rate of profit after the constant capital set in motion by one labourer increases ten-fold, the surplus labour-time would have to increase ten-fold, and soon the total labour-time, and finally the entire 24 hours of a day, would not suffice, even if wholly appropriated by capital.” [Here, by the way, Marx is calling on external determinisms — that of the astronomically-limited working day and that of the biologically-limited working day that intrude crucially upon the capitalist mode of production — in addition to the determinisms inherent in the capitalist mode of production itself.]⁴“The idea that the rate of profit does not shrink is, however, the basis of Price’s progression and in general the basis of ‘all-engrossing capital with compound interest’.”“The identity of surplus-value and surplus-labour imposes a qualitative limit upon the accumulation of capital.  This [qualitative limit upon accumulation of capital] consists of the total working-day, and the prevailing development of the productive forces and of the population, which limits the number of simultaneously exploitable working-days.”“But, if one conceives of surplus-value in the meaningless form of interest, the limit is merely quantitative and defies all fantasy.”Notes¹ Capital, Volume 3 Chapter 24 is stunning.  It begins “The relations of capital assume … their most fetish-like form in interest-bearing capital.  We have here M — M′, money creating more money, self-expanding value, without the process that effectuates these two extremes.” ↩ [Back]² The exponential growth of profit creates an insuperable problem for the Sraffians, whose 1960s conception of Marx demolished Marx in the 1970s, and held sway to the end of the 20th century, until the TSSI school restored Marx’s original conception of his work.  The Sraffian school, following Ricardo, are “physicalists” in the sense of equating profit with physical goods.  On their conception, if profit grows exponentially then physical goods must also grow exponentially, and our Universe must fill up exponentially with Sraffian products, bulkier than Dr Price’s shillings.  [None of this is intended to denigrate the fine scholar Piero Sraffa himself, who remains the skilled editor of the collected works of David Ricardo.] ↩ [Back]³ Capital, Vol. 3, Part III.  The Law of the Tendency of the Rate of Profit to Fall. ↩ [Back]⁴ Autonomous robots, that in imagination work continuously for free — and so escape astronomical and biological determinisms — create a terminal problem for capitalism.  They render surplus labour-time meaningless; they thereby annihilate profit.  The fact that they produce goods of zero value, and so of zero price, is merely incidental to the terminal crisis they pose, if we ever get that far, for the capitalist mode of production. ↩ [Back]

    #86868
    twc
    Participant

    Too Fabulous to Last ForeverDavid Harvey, in his always entertaining and frequently excellent, though always [un]consciously anti-socialist, talks, proposes compound growth, which is merely the expression of capital itself, as one of the most alarming of his 17 contradictions of capital.¹There must be dozens of graphs of compound growth on the web, but I computed my own using Wolfram Alpha, the primary mathematical tool of the web.The inspiration is Capital, Volume 3, Chapter 24, where Marx discusses an entire British administration, under Pitt, falling for a certain Dr Price’s scheme of borrowing at simple interest but charging [the nation] at compound interest, and thereby solving the British national debt once and for all.  Such are:  “the fabulous fancies of Dr Price, which outdo by far the fantasies of the alchemists;  fancies, in which Pitt believed in all earnest, and which he used as pillars of his financial administration”. Dr Price’s Paradigm ExampleDr Price’s epitome of capitalist desire is:  “A shilling put out to 6% compound interest at our Saviours birth” (presumably in the Temple of Jerusalem) “would… have increased to a greater sum than the whole solar system could hold, supposing it a sphere equal in diameter to the diameter of Saturn’s orbit.”Marx’s discussion is worth reading for the litany of fantasies that arise naturally out of the institution of banking.²With regard to fixing the national debt, Marx proceeds: “With Dr. Price’s aid, Pitt thus converts Smith’s theory of accumulation into enrichment of a nation by means of accumulating debts, and thus arrives at the pleasant progression of an infinity of loans — loans to pay loans. “[Dr Price] regarded capital as a self-regulating automaton, as a mere number that increases itself (just as Malthus did with respect to population in his geometrical progression), [and] he was struck by the thought that he had found the law of its growth in the formula        s = c (1 + i)ⁿ ,       [1]in which s = the sum of capital + compound interest, c = advanced capital, i = rate of interest, n = the number of years in which this process takes place.”[Capital, Vol. 3, Ch. 24.] New Shillings for OldHere is the graph of Dr Price’s formula for c = 1 shilling, invested to mature after n = 2014 years.The horizontal scale from 0 to 10, represents the fixed rate of interest i (%).Thus 1 represents a fixed rate of interest of 1%, …, and 10 represents a fixed rate of interest of 10%.The vertical axis from 0 to 80, represents the yield s, as the number of shilling coins, amassed over 2014 years, in powers of ten.  This is a logarithmic scale.³Thus, 3 represents 1000 shillings [one thousand, or 10³],6 represents 1,000,000 shillings [one million, or 10⁶],9 represents 1,000,000,000 shillings [one billion, or 10⁹], …,80 represents one followed by 80 zeroes of shillings [10⁸⁰].  How to Read the Graph  i  s  1% 10⁸  2% 10¹⁷  3% 10²⁵  4% 10³³  5% 10⁴²  6% 10⁵⁰  7% 10₅⁸  8% 10⁶⁷  9% 10⁷⁵ 10% 10⁸⁵Reading from the graph, Dr Price’s 1 shilling, invested at 6% per annum compound interest, after 2014 years, would yield 10⁵⁰ shillings, or100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Visualizing ThisIf each shilling stacks 1 mm high, a column of them would reach:the Moon when the yield was 10¹¹ shillings [~400 AD]Pluto when the yield was 10¹⁵ shillings [~600 AD]Proxima Centauri when the yield was 10¹⁹ shillings [~750 AD]the Andromeda Galaxy when the yield was 10²⁵ shillings [~1000 AD]the edge of the Observable Universe when the yield was 10³⁰ shillings [~1200 AD]And we still haven’t got to Dr Price’s 10⁵⁰ shillings.⁴ Notes¹ http://www.thersa.org/events/audio-and-past-events/2014/the-contradictions-of-capitalism ↩ [Back]² Marx passes the [to me] fascinating observation that: “romanticism in all walks of life … is made up of current prejudices, skimmed from the most superficial semblance of things.  This incorrect and trite content should then be “exalted” and rendered sublime through a mystifying mode of expression.”Yet young Marx and Engels dabbled in romantic poetry, while mature Marx admired Shelley and Byron, William Morris is our socialist pioneer, Rosa Luxembourg loved German romantic Lieder, etc. ↩ [Back]³ Similar logarithmic scales in powers of ten are used to measure earthquakes [Richter], sound [decibel], acidity [pH].  A logarithmic scale in powers of two is used for camera apertures [F-stop], etc. ↩ [Back]⁴ If a shilling weighs 10 grams then a pile of them would weigh as much as the Universe when the yield is 10⁵⁸.  At a higher fixed interest rate of 10%, Dr Price’s shillings are destined to overflow the Universe’s volume before our current century is out. ↩ [Back]

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