Religion and Socialist Society

Probably, this is the best answer to your question: https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlets/socialism-and-religionhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/education/depth-articles/religionProbably the expression used by Marx was applicable to his time when peoples were too much involved in religion. Our approach to religion is different to the secular atheists who think that the main problem of mankind is religion, and many of them support capitalism. Religion exists because the material conditions which motivated its emerge still exist in our society.

They are referring to two different situations. Religion was something created by men based on materialistic needs

They are not talking about the individuals, they are talking about the conceptions. Socialism is based on the materialist conception of history, and relgion is based on metaphysic, both are not compatible. Most ahteists are not anti-captialists

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Hi SympoThe Diggers:  Yes, you are right. It all depends on whether we are talking about utopian socialism (which is theoretically compatible with religious belief) or Marxian socialism, based on historical materialism, which isn't. The Diggers, as you say were utopian socialsits and so had no issue reconciling their views with religion.Religion and Marxian socialism: religious belief, underpinned by an idealist philosophy, and Marxian socialism, founded on historical materialism are theoretically incompatible.  You cannot hold an idealist and a materialist position at the same time without contradiction.  The fact is though, that people are not all philosophers and, individually, they are perfectly capable of holding contradictory beliefs.  So no, there is no reason why a Christian, or any religious individual, could not also believe in and work towards the establishment of a socialist society.  And if they were philosophically minded and bothered by the contradiction, there is nothing to prevent them taking the conclusions of Marx's materialist analysis and reinterpreting them ideologically,  so that their class interests end up bing expressed through an ethical or even a religious lens.   It would be a less secure foundation for their belief than Marxian materialism, but it would be possible.  It's very likely, in my view, that there will be individuals with religious beliefs, or the remnants of religious beliefs involved in a majority working class movement for socialism.But as Marcos indicates, the means by which an individual might come to adopt socialism or explain it ideologicaly to himself is very different from an analysis of  the forces operating more generally upon society.  Marxian materialism presents socialism as the work of a class conscious working class who have identified  their class interests.  The more their minds are clouded by diverting ideologies like religion, however, the more difficult gaining that consciousness will be.  It doesn't mean that some religious individuals can't see through to the realities of their class position.  It just means that for the working class as a whole religion makes obtaining that consciousness harder.The other passage you quoted argued that religion will only die when human being gain complete control over their environment.  I think there is some reality in this, though I suspect a claim like this over-eggs the pudding a little.  I think this is best understood as a process rather than as an achieved result.  In recent centuries, despite the ongoing chaos of the capitalist market,  our control over our environment has increased and religion has, indeed, receded.  In some places more than others. There is no exact rule operating here.  Personally, however, I doubt whether we will ever gain complete control over our environment, and, correspondingly,  I don't see any evidence to suggest that religion will die a final death even in a socialist society.  At least I wouldn't lay bets on it.   I don't think socialism will be fertile ground for religious belief, though, for the reason indicated – increasing control goes at least some way to removing the need for it. 

Hi Sympo,Putting aside for one moment the argument that belief in religion is inherently illogical, yes I see no reason why a Christian for instance couldn't take the the conclusions of Marxian historical materialism, and choose to regard them as morally desirable, and so perch a commitment to socialism on top of a religious conviction.  I don't think there is anything particularly impossible or controversial about that.I don''t think that religion creates class division.  Religion is used to justify or excuse class division, it is also used to motivate others to act in the interests of elites.  Religious bodies are usually, themselves, class based or in close collusion with class based bodies. But it  is the social relationship of property in society that creates class division, not religion.  Immediate return hunter gatherers have no property and therefore have no classes, but they have religion, for instance  It might be useful to distinguish between religious authorities and  religious doctrine on the one side and the beliefs of religious people on the other.  People with religious beliefs can and do have all kinds of personal variations on religion belief systems that diverge from the doctrine of religious authorities.   Individuals can believe all kinds of things.  So I don't think it is possible to lay down any firm claims about what individuals might or might not be able to believe. I don't have a crystal ball, so I am very wary of making predictions, but I understand the issue broadly like this.  Because religion performs all kind of ideological tasks for the ruling class I doubt whether anyone who is fully committed to the doctrines and pronouncements of a religious body is ever going to be a wholly  trustworthy socialist.  You cannot serve two interests, your own and those of your masters.  Those that can be scared or intimidated by religious claims are also less likely to make a firm committment to socialism.  But people with looser forms of religious belief and less commitment to authority might well come to recognise their class interests and take a clear class view. All I can say for sure is that the more firmly people are committed to religious dogma and the institutions that promote it, the less likely they are to be willing to carry through a socialist programme to overturn the capitalist system.  Thoroughgoing atheists who are also socialists the most trustworthy and consistent.  

My view, and it is only my view, is that there is a difference between religion and belief in things spiritual. Religion and religious belief implies the adherence to an organised belief system. To me there is no place for people who carry an adherence to an organised belief system in the Socialist Party. However a personal spiritual belief, is not something that is part of an organisational system, so for instance a person might believe in a personal karma, where if they do good to others, good will come to them. Although, I would view that as superstitous and illogical, I would not personally view that as a bar to being a party member.