Can You Fathom A World Without Money And Without Disease?

Here's an interesting question, could we describe The Venus Project and TZM as socialists? Might sound like a bit of a daft question, to all concerned  but I would consider people who have ideas such as this, fellow travelers along the road to a truly human society.I guess it depends on how a socialist is defined?Just a little something to think about.

Wow! There can be no doubt that something is spreading. I wonder if the PLM in the Philippines, and Morales in Bolivia, are aware of the WSM?It would be nice to think of us as intermediaries between these 'socialistic' parties in various countries, and having enough clout to get them to work together and see the need to think worldwide and abolish government itself. I don't think groups such as Zeitgeist will be concerned with that sort of thing, being non-political.Dream over.

The idea of common ownership, production for use and free access always has ebbed and flowed and attracted some thousands in the industrialised countries.  What's different now its attracting tens of thousands globally.  Willy Morris comes to mind: "One man with an idea in his head is in danger of being considered a madman; two men with the same idea in common maybe foolish, but can hardly be mad; ten men sharing an idea begin to act, a hundred draw attention as fanatics, a thousand and society begins to tremble, a hundred thousand and there is war abroad, and why only a hundred thousand?  Why not a hundred million and peace up[on the earth?  You and I who agree together, it is we who have to answer that question."The idea itself is the commonality, sadly a commonality of the means is in dispute and will remain so for some time.  When the neccesity of a political challenge is posed on the TZM UK facebook its always been met with a mixed reception.  Which in truth, despite TZM offically rejecting politics, illustrates their supporters are split over the issue.Not having the time to spare to sign up for TVP facebook I have no idea how TVP supporters have taken to the idea of the neccesity of a political challenge.  However, the sooner we contact the PLM the better.Any further links yet?

In other words, unfortunately, just another confused organisation as this extract from the PLM statement makes clear.

An article I've just found/read is pertinent to this discussion, and says in more detail than I could/would have.EG: "The states in the fifteen countries represented here range from quasi-military “democracies” of the right (Guatemala) to governments that say they are “on the road to socialism,” but which are actually “reformist” at best.[9] They, as well as their political parties, also claim to represent “the people.” But in fact, the interests of civil society, as organized in social movements, rarely converge with those of parties and states, because reformist states must respond to the pressures of international capital, local oligarchies, and other forces that directly oppose the interests of the majority."And later it talks about how all of the governments are hostage to the transnational capitalist class – with which we can largely agree – leading to discrepancies between discourse and practice.There's some really interesting perspective relating to history of the various countries and it's clear to see that so much of what's happening is about RESISTANCE to what's gone before. So, although the article is based on Latin America we can relate it too to the Phillipines, where the thread started, and to a whole host of other places. So, what do we do if we can't have socialism in one country? We resist, fight back, protest, occupy land and buildings, etc etc – as was mentioned somewhere in the article – there is a practice of unity in diversity. And we keep on doing what we can in our various ways to build the movement and keep it moving forward.Article here: http://www.upsidedownworld.org/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5060:until-the-rulers-obey-learning-from-latin-americas-social-movements&catid=30:international&Itemid=60or here: http://tinyurl.com/lqamfhbDefinitely worth a read. 

I think on a couple of earlier threads i have stressed the importance of engaging in the environmentalist movement and i know some loathe the need for hyphenated adjectives to socialism but we need to declare ourselves eco-socialists and explain the reasons why we are. We require to sow our seeds on soil that is fertile rather than barren.We cannot expect to discover clones of ourselves for many arrive at similar conclusions as ourselves via a different journey and unfortunately they bring their luggage with them , as we do too, so i am not dismayed that from our view some other groups appear confused on certain aspects. What i argue is that the similarities offer an opportunity for further discussion in a more comradely fashion rather than simply to always re-iterate the hostility clause because they are not in 100% agreement or arrived via a different route and still hold attachments to their route. We can be clear on our opposition to elements of anothers case but still seek debate without denouncing every other group as our class enemies. We were all a little confused in our past and it was helpful assistance and advice and education from others that got us beyond that not the finger-pointing and point-scoring. There will be people in the PLM (perhaps only a few) who will be more receptive to ourselves than others and it is for us to try and make contacts. Try and imagine if in 1902 a foreign group of Impossiblists discovered the SDF for tthe first time and judged all the SDF membership on what Hyndman wrote or from the SDF programme and dismissed the existence of Anderson and Fitzgerald et al.