Billy Bragg

Billy Bragg? mmmmmmmm, the archetypal new working class leader. No understanding of a possible future society, make cash now, by writing supposed working class, anti-establishment, trite, tripe!Good old billy. what, in North east parlence, we call a, FUCKWIT.And BILLY, if you read these posts, we know you’re not a MARXIST, whatever that means, nor a Socialist. Just an ex worker with NEW cash, being a purveyor of crap.Made you rich, so why get involved in the struggle?And a TWEET? keep chirping dick head.

Lol

So accordin to you, SS you “don’t believe he has ever set his stall out as a overtly politicised artist pursuing political ends through music.”
Well thats intereting, as the following suggests,
 
Red Wedge

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Red Wedge was a collective of musicians who attempted to engage young people with politics in general, and the policies of the Labour Party in particular, during the period leading up to the 1987 general election, in the hope of ousting the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher.
Fronted by Billy Bragg (whose 1985 Jobs for Youth tour had been a prototype of sorts for Red Wedge), Paul Weller and The Communards lead singer Jimmy Somerville, they put on concert tours and appeared in the media, adding their support to the Labour Party campaign.

“Beat the Whites with the Red Wedge”, a 1919 lithograph by Lissitzky
The group was launched on 21 November 1985, with Bragg, Weller, Strawberry Switchblade and Kirsty MacColl invited to a reception at the Palace of Westminster hosted by Labour MP Robin Cook. The collective took its name from a 1919 poster by Russian constructivist artist El Lissitzky, Beat the Whites with the Red Wedge. Despite this echo of the Russian Civil War, Red Wedge was not a communist organisation; neither was it officially part of the Labour Party, but it did initially have office space at Labour’s headquarters. The group’s logo, also inspired by the Lissitzky poster, was designed by Neville Brody.
Red Wedge organised a number of major tours. The first, in January and February 1986, featured Bragg, Weller’s band The Style Council, The Communards, Junior Giscombe, Lorna Gee and Jerry Dammers, and picked up guest appearances from Madness, Heaven 17, Bananarama, Prefab Sprout, Elvis Costello, Gary Kemp, Tom Robinson, Sade, The Beat, Lloyd Cole, The Blow Monkeys and The Smiths along the way.
When the general election was called in 1987, Red Wedge also organised a comedy tour featuring Lenny Henry, Ben Elton, Robbie Coltrane, Craig Charles, Phill Jupitus and Harry Enfield, and another tour by the main musical participants along with The The, Captain Sensible and the Blow Monkeys. The group also published an election pamphlet, Move On Up, with a foreword by Labour leader Neil Kinnock.
After the 1987 election produced a third consecutive Conservative victory, many of the musical collective drifted away. A few further gigs were arranged and the group’s magazine Well Red continued, but funding eventually ran out and Red Wedge was formally disbanded in 1990.
So, according to you SS, he never ” set his stall out as a overtly politicised artist pursuing political ends through music.”
The above proves differently. Gonna have to read up on facts before jumping in with boths bfeet MARRA.
He used and uses hi popularity to support the anti working-class, pro capitalist Labour Party and gets and deserves my utter contempt. Thick numpty he is.

I stand by my comments. If you look and listen to Billy Bragg’s musical output, it isn’t ALL about politics, much of it is about relationships and life aside from the political arena. I am not defending or even particularly interested in BB’s politics TBH, and as a known Labour supporter and ‘reformist’ if he must be labelled, what news is there to report and get upset about? It’s hardly like he has set his stall up as a Marxist revolutinary is it? Red Wedge was hardly the cutting edge of revolutionary politics was it? Billy Bragg ISN’T a socialist as defined by the SPGB, really? Neither is the vast majority of the planet, so don’t stop at Billy Bragg!It seems to me to have been a very misguided article and if the Standard’s editors had planned an attack on a famous person, I would have thought there are far more deserving targets politically than Billy Bragg. And even if this article had some justification, and there was seen by the Party to have been a need to carry out such a character assaniation, then why not have done the smart thing and invited Billy Bragg to interview and dicuss with him his politics and ours and where they diverge and why – would have been a better article, woudl have sold more copies too because lets face some truths – Billy Bragg is infinitely more popular than our politics and Party are.Personal abuse is not the way forward for any discussion and it wins no friends or supporters. Have you personally Steve, ever been won over to someone else’s point of view by them calling you a moron or worse? I doubt it. And whilst you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, thought must be given to how and where it is expressed and the context it i likely to be viewed. Or are the type of individual who wanders into pubs and call the barman a twat because you don’t like his face? I would suggest, and hope, you’re not like this, so why rant and rave at and about people in a forum, a different kind of public place? Rule of thumb is that if you wouldn’t say it out loud in a pub, don’t type it in a forum that’s publicly viewable.So again I ask, what was the point of the article? What did the Party gain by its publication? If the answer is nothing, then it has failed even as a peice of writing. Upsetting Billy Bragg has gained the SPGB nothing in terms of any of our goals, it has not furthered the cause of socialism one iota, but it has possibly upset a few readers and made us look very stupid, very sectarian and very out of touch.We really need, as a Party, to decide where we want to be going. Do we need to be trying to build the Party, recuriting and educating workers as to the true meaning of socialism, and promoting this definition as laid out in the A&O’s or are we going to carry on shrinking into insignificance and spend our time and print taking pot shots at minor celebs and arguing with minor parties of the ‘left’ for hours on end trying to convince a donkey he’s an ass? If its the latter we might as well pack up and go home.

Perhaps you make my case for me Steve. If you are admitting that your explanations of socialism have roused other workers to violence in defence of those who rob them, then your whole approach is clearly flawed! And why so worked up over Red Wedge? It was thirty years ago nigh on. Who’s next for a public pilloring for not being a Real Socialist – Arthur Scargill? Jimmy Knapp?Either way the question still remains unanswered (and notably by comrades in the editorial comittee – are you silent on this issue?), WHAT has this article achieved for the Party?

“Actually, SS, I was talking, as is my norm, in a calm, considered way.””So can I ask, nay tell you and others on this site, don’t fucking put words in my mouth again…”1. Don’t swear at me – I find it offensive and unnecessary and it only undermines your own case. as can be seen. Is this a ‘comradely’ attitude? Is the the way to progress discussion and debate?2. So if others and myself have mistaken your meaning, perhaps the problem lies not in the reading but in the writing, the common demoninator here being the writer…?! Perhaps less use of CAPITALS would help as THIS IS SHOUTING when written on forums. And I have not suggested you were violent or explosive in your case, you did this yourself – I said ‘perhaps’ because I don’t know you, I haven’t met you and so cannot say so as fact. It is an assumption on my part based on your own words, the only course of action available to me. If the assumption is wrong, I’ll admit it but the evidence seems otherwise.3. In answer to your own assumption, no I don’t promote Red Wedge and never have although I have voted labour, am still in a trade union and I do own Billy Bragg records. All I am saying is that it is utterly insignificant, as is the anti-Bragg article and the unamusing anecdotes of comrades abusing other people in the name of the ’cause’.If we cannot remain civil, if we cannot control ourselves and concentrate on promoting socialism rather than attacking individuals for their actions taken over 20 years ago, then we are no better than those that oppress us now.

Okay clearly its me that’s wrong then. However, seeing as nearly everyone and their dog was/are expressing nationlist views during the Olympics, I still think he is an odd target – perhaps we should have had a go at everyone? Seb Coe would probably have been a more deserving.I can see your thoughts behind this but I think it is flawed in that everybody already knows that Billy Bragg isn’t a revolutionary, that he is a labour/liberal supporter and does not represent ‘socialism’ in any way and even he doesn’t see himself in this light! He never to my knowledge has, so apart from the quote from Radio 4, what’s the news here? We might as well submit an article on how labour isn’t really a mass party of the working class, I bet that’ll be news to many.And if the article wasn’t personal, although I remain unconvinced, the views expressed in this thread certainly have been, including between ourselves, which is a shame. I thought we should conduct ourselves as socialists and people with a touch more decorum and leave the abusive shouting to the Trots and spotty teenagers who don’t know any better.